[NewsBot]

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Civil liberties officials at the Homeland Security Department did not agree with some of the language in a controversial report on right-wing extremists, but the agency issued the report anyway....

By EILEEN SULLIVAN

Read the full story.

[IWS]

Gotta love a government that, even though the report specifically says that there is no information that "domestic rightwing terrorists" are planning violent acts, they will label Americans and veterans who have conservative views, terrorists, but will not call the people who are actually committing acts of terrorism, overseas, who are killing the same soldiers who will be labeled as potential terrorists when they get home, as terrorists.

Conservative American = potential domestic terrorist

Radical Muslim Extremist = potential dinner guest?

[Phreakwars]

ImWithStupid said:

Gotta love a government that, even though the report specifically says that there is no information that "domestic rightwing terrorists" are planning violent acts, they will label Americans and veterans who have conservative views, terrorists, but will not call the people who are actually committing acts of terrorism, overseas, who are killing the same soldiers who will be labeled as potential terrorists when they get home, as terrorists.

Conservative American = potential domestic terrorist

Radical Muslim Extremist = potential dinner guest?

Figure it this way.

What better way to keep the would be right wing extremist in check, but to call them terrorist before they get a chance to have an outbreak of incidents.

"HA HA YOU RIGHT WINGERS ARE TERRORISTS, HA HA, WATCHA GONNA DO ABOUT IT, COMMIT AN ACT OF TERRORISM AND PROVE THE LIBERALS RIGHT? HAHA!!

Awesome strategy if you ask me.
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[IWS]

Bender said:

Figure it this way.

What better way to keep the would be right wing extremist in check, but to call them terrorist before they get a chance to have an outbreak of incidents.

"HA HA YOU RIGHT WINGERS ARE TERRORISTS, HA HA, WATCHA GONNA DO ABOUT IT, COMMIT AN ACT OF TERRORISM AND PROVE THE LIBERALS RIGHT? HAHA!!

Awesome strategy if you ask me.
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So you're saying it IS a McCarthyism style smear campaign, by the Obama administration, then?


I figured it was just them forgetting that they wanted to be the softer, non offending US.

[Phreakwars]

ImWithStupid said:

So you're saying it IS a McCarthyism style smear campaign, by the Obama administration, then?


I figured it was just them forgetting that they wanted to be the softer, non offending US.

McCarthyism? Hmm, don't know, where were you reading that comparison from?

Well, lets compare. McCarthy pretty much pushed an idealism, that if you didn't believe in this or that, then you were a Commie Bastard. McCarthy was the guy who is responsible for the phrase "IN GOD WE TRUST" being placed on all American currency, and is beloved by many as a true patriotic American, although his methods meant much to be desired.

So, hmm.. sure I suppose you could call it McCarthyism seeings as how the GOP has already been trying to tie facism to socialism which are in fact, 2 opposite spectrums. So sure, lets call it McCarthyism if it sells, even though it's really more like quite the opposite.
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[IWS]

Bender said:

McCarthyism? Hmm, don't know, where were you reading that comparison from?

Well, lets compare. McCarthy pretty much pushed an idealism, that if you didn't believe in this or that, then you were a Commie Bastard. McCarthy was the guy who is responsible for the phrase "IN GOD WE TRUST" being placed on all American currency, and is beloved by many as a true patriotic American, although his methods meant much to be desired.

So, hmm.. sure I suppose you could call it McCarthyism seeings as how the GOP has already been trying to tie facism to socialism which are in fact, 2 opposite spectrums. So sure, lets call it McCarthyism if it sells, even though it's really more like quite the opposite.
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And the DHS report said that if you didn't believe in the expansion of government, are a returning veteran, believe in the Constitution, and don't agree with the current administration, you might be a domestic terrorist.

I see you still have no idea what fascism is though.

I'll break it down simple for you, as socialism and fascism are not "opposites". In fact they are closer to being the same, than they are to being opposites.

Quote

Where socialism sought totalitarian control of a society’s economic processes through direct state operation of the means of production, fascism sought that control indirectly, through domination of nominally private owners. Where socialism nationalized property explicitly, fascism did so implicitly, by requiring owners to use their property in the “national interest”—that is, as the autocratic authority conceived it. (Nevertheless, a few industries were operated by the state.) Where socialism abolished all market relations outright, fascism left the appearance of market relations while planning all economic activities. Where socialism abolished money and prices, fascism controlled the monetary system and set all prices and wages politically. In doing all this, fascism denatured the marketplace. Entrepreneurship was abolished. State ministries, rather than consumers, determined what was produced and under what conditions.

Fascism: The Concise Encyclopedia of Economics | Library of Economics and Liberty

Fascism does things like take over indirect control of all the major industries, like economic, manufacturing, labor, energy and directs what will and won't be done, like deciding what they make, what sources of energy can and can't be used, whether banks can give back government funds to get out from under the control of the government, threatens Congress to pass environmental legislation or they'll make even more destructive mandates using a federal agency's guidelines, etc...

[hugo]

Bender said:

So, hmm.. sure I suppose you could call it McCarthyism seeings as how the GOP has already been trying to tie facism to socialism which are in fact, 2 opposite spectrums.

Actually, facism is simply a tweaking of Marxist socialism, Mussolini, the founder of modern facism, was initially a Marxist. The main difference between marxism and facism, in economic terms, is Marxists want businesses run by government bureaucrats while facists want government bureaucrats to lord over the leaders of business who still decide how to best produce what the government demands they produce. Facists and Marxists are both socialists to a very high degree.

A bit on Hitler's economic policies

QUOTE
In the 1930s, Hitler was widely viewed as just another protectionist central planner who recognized the supposed failure of the free market and the need for nationally guided economic development. Proto-Keynesian socialist economist Joan Robinson wrote that "Hitler found a cure against unemployment before Keynes was finished explaining it."



QUOTE
What were those economic policies? He suspended the gold standard, embarked on huge public works programs like Autobahns, protected industry from foreign competition, expanded credit, instituted jobs programs, bullied the private sector on prices and production decisions, vastly expanded the military, enforced capital controls, instituted family planning, penalized smoking, brought about national health care and unemployment insurance, imposed education standards, and eventually ran huge deficits. The Nazi interventionist program was essential to the regime's rejection of the market economy and its embrace of socialism in one country.


Sounds like left-wing economic policies to me.

A bit more information:
QUOTE
In 1977, Harvard economist John Kenneth Galbraith wrote in his book The Age of Uncertainty that Hitler "was the true protagonist of the Keynesian ideas."

QUOTE
Keynes himself even explained that his theories were not incompatible with national socialism. In the forward to the German edition of his book The General Theory (1936), Keynes wrote that "the theory of output as a whole, which is what the following book purports to provide, is much more easily adapted to the conditions of a totalitarian state, than…under conditions of free competition and a large measure of laissez-faire."


QUOTE
"Most cruel joke of all, however, has been played by Hitler & Co. on those German capitalists and small businessmen who once backed National Socialism as a means of saving Germany's bourgeois economic structure from radicalism. The Nazi credo that the individual belongs to the state also applies to business. Some businesses have been confiscated outright, on other what amounts to a capital tax has been levied. Profits have been strictly controlled. Some idea of the increasing Governmental control and interference in business could be deduced from the fact that 80% of all building and 50% of all industrial orders in Germany originated last year with the Government. Hard-pressed for food- stuffs as well as funds, the Nazi regime has taken over large estates and in many instances collectivized agriculture, a procedure fundamentally similar to Russian Communism."

This post has been edited by hugo: 19 April 2009 - 12:31 AM

[RoyalOrleans]

Hmmmmmmmm.....

Due to IWS' and Hugo's thorough and source filled remarks, this thread is officially dead or will Bender concoct some other demagoguery?

[IWS]

RoyalOrleans said:

Hmmmmmmmm.....

Due to IWS' and Hugo's thorough and source filled remarks, this thread is officially dead or will Bender concoct some other demagoguery?

I didn't mean anything negative toward anyone, but I know that this is about the upteenth time I've heard someone say, fascist this or fascist that and half or more of those were comments by Bender, and I get tired of people only equating fascism with the atrocities done by the Nazi party, where that is, in perspective, a small part of what the Nazis stood for and not what the real fascists in Italy and Spain stood for. You know, those who Woodrow Wilson, FDR and Churchill thought so highly about. The same people the current administration want to model themselves after.

[Phreakwars]

So then how the hell can you then turn around and claim McCarthyism?

Not that I'm complaining, I take that more as a compliment.
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[IWS]

Bender said:

So then how the hell can you then turn around and claim McCarthyism?

Not that I'm complaining, I take that more as a compliment.
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Once again you seem to not be able to understand what things mean. Hopefully you have some grasp on fascism after Hugo and I spelled it out in simple terms.

McCarthyism has nothing to do with economic governing. McCarthyism is the act of portraying a group as being negative and using propaganda and or disinformation to demonize said group.

Often described as the politically motivated practice of making accusations of disloyalty, subversion, or treason without proper regard for evidence.

i.e. the DHS report, or the reporting of the tea party protests by CNN or MSNBC, as scripted by the White House.

If you like being connected to the strategy of fascism and McCarthyism as a "compliment". I'd suggest moving to some small latin American country, because it won't fly here. May I suggest Venezuela or Bolivia.

I personally wouldn't take not being knowledgeable of what fascism or McCarthyism mean, as being a compliment.

This post has been edited by ImWithStupid: 19 April 2009 - 07:29 AM

[Phreakwars]

So since when is McCarthyism such a bad thing if McCarthy was so damn great, is there a double standard?

I mean hell, if, in the end, you have prevented violence by calling someone violent before they have done anything, then truly you have done a better thing then had you let violence escalate.
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[IWS]

Bender said:

So since when is McCarthyism such a bad thing if McCarthy was so damn great, is there a double standard?

I mean hell, if, in the end, you have prevented violence by calling someone violent before they have done anything, then truly you have done a better thing then had you let violence escalate.
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I see you've been programed well.

McCarthyism didn't prevent anything.

It made "accusations of disloyalty, subversion, or treason without proper regard for evidence." It's widely known that McCarthyism led to the public scrutiny or investigation of innocent law abiding Americans. Like those Americans, described in the Obama/Napolitano DHS report.

No proof just propaganda. Just like what is being sent out from the morning conference/game plan calls with the White House and those who spread the propaganda of the Obama White House.

But, hey, if you keep wanting to support and defend, socialism, fascism and/or McCartyism, by all means.

Unlike you liberal types, us Conservatives believe in free speech, even if the person talking is wrong, ignorant, stupid, or crazy.

[Phreakwars]

Well, I guess now you know how it feels to be the oppressed minority. Doesn't feel so good does it?
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[IWS]

Bender said:

Well, I guess now you know how it feels to be the oppressed minority. Doesn't feel so good does it?
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Sounds like the dribbleings of someone who doesn't have an answer to the facts, logic and reason that was just put in front of them.

Hey. It's ok to be duped by a populist movement. Don't feel bad. There's a lot of people who are still feeling the effects of the whole "hopey/changy thing.

Most are among the ignorant, but some are among those who can't let go of their ideology, for something that acually works.

[Phreakwars]

Quote

Most are among the ignorant, but some are among those who can't let go of their ideology, for something that acually works.

I think that key phrase is the one that pisses the Repubicans off so much. If it were true, the election would have went the other way. IT's still hard to accept, I know, but you'll get used to it one day.
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[IWS]

Bender said:

I think that key phrase is the one that pisses the Repubicans off so much. If it were true, the election would have went the other way. IT's still hard to accept, I know, but you'll get used to it one day.
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Oh, come on. You can get past speculation can't you? It's a known fact that take away the factual left wing media bias, it would have been a complete Republican landslide, even with John McCain, as a candidate...

Since you insist on talking ignorantly about fascism and Hitler and not knowing what either really means...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKq4388GbxM"]YouTube - Afterburner: The Cost of Media Bias[/ame]

Keep up the leftist agenda.

[Phreakwars]

Man, what a crybaby..."IF YOU TAKE AWAY THE MEDIA BIAS, MCCAIN WOULD HAVE WON... WHAAA, WHAAAAAA"

I THINK IT'S STRAIGHT UP HILARIOUS.

Still can't get over it, Obama won by a landslide.
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[IWS]

Bender said:

Man, what a crybaby..."IF YOU TAKE AWAY THE MEDIA BIAS, MCCAIN WOULD HAVE WON... WHAAA, WHAAAAAA"

I THINK IT'S STRAIGHT UP HILARIOUS.

Still can't get over it, Obama won by a landslide.
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Nobody has won by a landslide, since Reagan.

[snafu]

ImWithStupid said:

Nobody has won by a landslide, since Reagan.

Wasnt' it something like 64 for Obama and 62 McCain?

This post has been edited by snafu: 19 April 2009 - 06:08 PM