[ToriAllen]

I don't understand why people get so up in arms over opposing views. I can understand discussing them, debating them, or even trying to disprove them, but it seems like so many people are really taking opposition personally these days.

I am using Facebook as an example...Yes, I'm on Facebook...Yes, I'm a nerd. Moving on:

Example one:

One of my friends put a status to the effect of:
"Judging by the status updates, looks like it was good for the blood pressure to miss Obama's speech"

After putting this as his status, one of the people on his friends list responded with:
"So what's the big deal...he's no longer Obama he's President Obama to you...like it or not....and clearly we have been sleeping for years now...@ "Name Removed" your opinion does not matter to him either he doesn't give a crap about what you have to say....deal with it!"

Then she removed him from her friend list...Really?

Example two:

Another one of my friends was posting various articles about the socialized healthcare and expressing opinions against it...The response he got:

"please do not ever contact me again. Attacking our first African-American president for trying to help the poor? And attacking his wife, too. How lame. I am truly disappointed with you.
You are such a disappointment as a young man, and Latino. "

Again...Really?

Can people not discuss their disagreements in a logical manner? Do people not realize that not everyone is going to agree with their point of view all of the time? I really don't understand that mindset. Now, I've debated with some people I thought had some pretty far out views, but I have never stopped talking to someone or being friends with someone because they disagreed with me.

So, is it the subject matter that gets people all emotional and up in arms?

[emkay64]

I think some people just like running around with their arms in the air.

[emkay64]

Just found this lol.

How to Have a Civil Political Debate | The Art of Manliness

[mercury]

Because most people are too pigheaded to see things any way but their own, and too insecure to acknowledge that anyone holding an oppsing view may actually have valid reasons for holding it.

[Ali]

I've got friends on both ends of the spectrum....from strict conservative to tree hugging liberal and I have no problem with that. I've always been able to sit down and discuss politics with them and quite frankly, have learned a lot about my own views and reasons for my own standpoints after talking with them.

They have their beliefs and I have mine. If we're TRULY friends, there's no reason for anyone to be shunned based on what the other may or may not believe.

[ToriAllen]

emkay64 said:

Just found this lol.

How to Have a Civil Political Debate | The Art of Manliness

That's great. :)

mercury said:

Because most people are too pigheaded to see things any way but their own, and too insecure to acknowledge that anyone holding an oppsing view may actually have valid reasons for holding it.

Yeah, that sounds about right.

[Ali]

I used to hang out with a group where a couple of the guys would always razz one teacher about how much teachers suck...how their liberal ways were ruining our nation....how her profession was filled with nothing but no good, lazy bums looking for government perks and long vacations, etc...

I mean, we'd be out trying to relax and have a few drinks and the guys would go on, and on, and ON until she'd finally get so pissed off that her evening would be ruined, thus ruining everyone else's good time. It's fine to have your views, but show a little decorum when expressing them for crying out loud and know when enough is enough!

She eventually stopped hanging out with the group and so did I. It just wasn't fun anymore.



The moral of the story?: People can only take so much of a negative thing before they tire of it and move the fuk on.

[ToriAllen]

Ali said:

I've got friends on both ends of the spectrum....from strict conservative to tree hugging liberal and I have no problem with that. I've always been able to sit down and discuss politics with them and quite frankly, have learned a lot about my own views and reasons for my own standpoints after talking with them.

They have their beliefs and I have mine. If we're TRULY friends, there's no reason for anyone to be shunned based on what the other may or may not believe.

I feel the same way. I just don't understand people who get an attitude with you if you disagree with them. "Oh, I see the light now. I'll think just like you so you won't ignore me." I've seen this behavior a lot, but it seems to be exaggerated when it comes to Obama for some reason. The country seems more divided with him then it did under Bush or Clinton. I don't get it. The same people are complaining about his policies that complained about Clintons policies but I don't remember anyone reacting this drastically to opposition with Clinton. It is a little ridiculous. Obama is just a man, and should be open to ridicule like everyone else. Judging by the reactions of some people you would think their father had just been insulted, but the fact is, most of these people have never even met Obama. I think that is another thing I don?t understand. How can people defend a person they don?t even know, and not just his ideas, but the person himself. I would never think to stake my reputation on that of some politician I?ve never met and know nothing about aside from what he has to say on TV. I didn?t do that with Bush and unless I know someone personally I?m not going to swear to their good character or good intentions. Come to think of it, I wouldn?t even do that for 99 percent of the people I know personally. I liked Reagan, but I don't get personally offended if someone badmouths him or his policies. I certainly wouldn't stop talking to them.

[ToriAllen]

Ali said:

The moral of the story?: People can only take so much of a negative thing before they tire of it and move the fuk on.

I get that, but that sounds more like harassment that debating political ideas. I?m referring to people simply stating their opinion about the healthcare plan, or in the case of my one friend, putting one status on his facebook about being glad he missed the speech. No one would want to be constantly harassed like your friend was, but living life requires a certain amount of tolerance when it comes to opposing views.

[snafu]

I think the reason is because these topics are extremely important. Our very existence as a free nation is in jeopardy as far as I'm concerned. True we can't stop dialect between the opposition but emotions are running high. My friend told me today that he was talking to his doctor about Obama's health care and his doctor came unglued and was ranting about how he will not be able to keep his practice the way it is now if Obama has his way. My friend agrees with him but he couldn't believe how stirred up his doctor got.

Our county might be changing drastically and people are very concerned. You have a far left congress and president with a majority of the population disagreeing and fearful that the very fabric of our country is at stake.

[hugo]

Most Americans are too damn ignorant to discuss the issues we face. They must rely on attacking the individuals they are debating to substitute for their lack of knowledge. Whenever you see in debate someone constantly using "you're" (the ignoramouses often mispell it "your") you know you are dealing with an ignorant individual. Best to just put them on ignore.

[Phreakwars]

The debate is never civil, because it gets distorted with outright lies, deceptions, and misinformation. Not to mention the name calling.

I have all my friends on facebook too. One of the reason I have actually been ignoring THIS particular forum even, as of late, is that we have idiots here (no names mentioned), who would rather distort truth from fact, and resort to the tired labeling of our President (Nazi, commie, socialist, Marxist, Muslim, Kenyan, ACORN, etc, etc...). Who are these Republicans I can have a civil debate with? My past classmates for one. In Nebraska, but mainly the ones in Iowa (I don't debate with the ones I don't personally know). They know damn well spewing those stupid outrageous accusations on their own wall is gonna make them look like idiots to their friends, family & classmates who have them on their friends list. And they ALL agree it's disrespectful to the office of the President of the United States to put those petty labels on him like that just because you might disagree with him. Maybe it's just that my Republican class mates have a little more class. Or perhaps you can't say we are hiding behind our keyboards talking smack because we all know each other.

I actually get a BETTER debate out of the ones who by-pass that stupidity, and more things from a Republican perspective I can agree with, then I get from the media whore lunatics who parrot every damn thing they hear into the forum & blog world.
.
.

[hugo]

I blame a lot of the lack of civil discourse on talk radio. There was a time when books by economists made the best seller list. I suggest reading the Keynesian, John Kenneth Galbraith's, The Affluent Society, and the neo-classisist, Milton Friedman's, Capitalism and Freedom. not only will you learn about the two competing ideologies that have shaped debate in the post WWII era, but you will find great examples in civil discourse.

This post has been edited by hugo: 12 September 2009 - 09:02 AM

[IWS]

I personally have been seeing more and more validity to the Kondratiev, long wave theory on economics. The biggest problem with this theory is there is too much wiggle room and this makes it hard to prove or disprove. I think if Kondratiev is correct it would also support Milton Friedman as it doesn't matter what we do, capitalism goes through the same cycle, so government interference should be minimal.

This post has been edited by ImWithStupid: 12 September 2009 - 02:43 PM

[hugo]

ImWithStupid said:

I personally have been seeing more and more validity to the Kondratiev, long wave theory on economics. The biggest problem with this theory is there is too much wiggle room and this makes it hard to prove or disprove. I think if Kondratiev is correct it would also support Milton Friedman as it doesn't matter what we do, capitalism goes through the same cycle, so government interference should be minimal.

If the government does have a role it should use built in automatic stabilizers; i.e when the unemployment rate goes up unemployment benefits increase. This takes the politics out of it. There will always be a business cycle.

This post has been edited by hugo: 12 September 2009 - 07:04 PM

[RoyalOrleans]

I'm not proud of some of the things I commit to post.

I feel that I can broach a topic with a little more tact and, grant it, sometimes I do. A lot of the times I don't. That's the venom in my veins, though!

Yet I don't think I speak from an uninformed view, I mean I do take in all sides before I run off at the mouth (well fingers). And I don't think I speak from a narrow or one-sided viewpoint, either. I mean, the scrutinizing mind will believe what it wants.

I don't Twitter, I don't do Facebook or MySpace, and I have little patience negotiating the keypad on my fukken phone! With the exception of JustBS, and WPYO previously, I don't use the Internet for much other than news and sports (and porn!).

With that said, I hope some of you will tell me when I am being totally unreasonable. I don't want JustBS to go the way of WPYO before it was shut down.

This post has been edited by RoyalOrleans: 12 September 2009 - 09:22 PM

[hugo]

Ain't nothing wrong with venting occasionally.

[mercury]

I've never found your views to be insulting, out of line, not well thought out, or fail to make sense. I may not always agree with them, but it's obvious you've done your homework, RO.

[hugo]

mercury said:

I've never found your views to be insulting, out of line, not well thought out, or fail to make sense. I may not always agree with them, but it's obvious you've done your homework, RO.

The only reason she don't agree with our comments all the time is because she is a damn loony commie.

[mercury]

yep. that's me! ;)

Oh... by the way, hugo... I spanked you a few minutes ago. LOL tsk! tsk! you should know better.

This post has been edited by mercury: 12 September 2009 - 11:31 PM