Follow Us on Twitter
Like Us on Facebook
Subscribe on Youtube
Sign In »
Register Now!
Help
Guidelines
Follow Us on Twitter
Become a Fan on Facebook
Digg Us
Just curious what people think will happen with this latest round of the healthcare mess. If you want to explain why, please feel free but at least vote on what you believe the outcome will be just so we can get a feel for how our members believe the debate has done so far.
Will Obama pass Obamacare?
Rate Topic:
#1
Times 
- I love milk and cookies
- Group: Registered Members
- Posts: 3,499
- Joined: 28-August 07
- LocationMaking tyrants be themselves
Posted 09 March 2010 - 06:49 PM
If you can't beat them, lie about them
I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody. ~ Bill Cosby
Quote
Anna Perenna thinks people who give negative rep instead of trying to write an intelligent reply are spineless douches.
#3
Times
- I love milk and cookies
- Group: Registered Members
- Posts: 3,499
- Joined: 28-August 07
- LocationMaking tyrants be themselves
Posted 09 March 2010 - 09:03 PM
*Chi* said:
None of the above. E. Who the heck knows!
I was asking for your perceptions of the issues and what you "believe" will happen based on your perceptions.
I believe they will fall just short of their needed votes to pass things as-is and will end up either starting over completely or do nothing at all anytime soon.
If you can't beat them, lie about them
I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody. ~ Bill Cosby
Quote
Anna Perenna thinks people who give negative rep instead of trying to write an intelligent reply are spineless douches.
#4
hugo
- Big Time BS'er
- Group: Registered Members
- Posts: 1,884
- Joined: 27-August 07
Posted 10 March 2010 - 12:04 AM
I see them paying off enough congressmen to get the votes. Expect a couple hookers to have a big payday.It is a tight one.
This post has been edited by hugo: 10 March 2010 - 12:17 AM
I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. – Will Rogers
An Avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. It leads men to stretch, to misinterpret, and to misapply even the best of laws. He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he a establishes a precedent that will reach to himself. – Thomas Paine (1795)
Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. – Frederic Bastiat
Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others? – Thomas Jefferson (1801)
This country is a one-party country. Half of it is called Republican and half is called Democrat. It doesn't make any difference. All the really good ideas belong to the Libertarians. – Hugh Downs (1997)
Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. – Daniel Webster (1782-1852)
Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance. – H.L. Mencken
An Avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. It leads men to stretch, to misinterpret, and to misapply even the best of laws. He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he a establishes a precedent that will reach to himself. – Thomas Paine (1795)
Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. – Frederic Bastiat
Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others? – Thomas Jefferson (1801)
This country is a one-party country. Half of it is called Republican and half is called Democrat. It doesn't make any difference. All the really good ideas belong to the Libertarians. – Hugh Downs (1997)
Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. – Daniel Webster (1782-1852)
Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance. – H.L. Mencken
#5
Times
- I love milk and cookies
- Group: Registered Members
- Posts: 3,499
- Joined: 28-August 07
- LocationMaking tyrants be themselves
Posted 10 March 2010 - 11:24 AM
hugo said:
I see them paying off enough congressmen to get the votes. Expect a couple hookers to have a big payday.It is a tight one.
Okay, but let me ask you a followup question, all of these deals and promises being made to the members of the House require a great deal of trust in their fellow Democrats in the senate to pass "future" legislation to honor these promises, do you think this will really happen?
Or will the Senate say no when the time comes for the new stuff to be voted on?
Personally I think the Senate will not do as promised.
If you can't beat them, lie about them
I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody. ~ Bill Cosby
Quote
Anna Perenna thinks people who give negative rep instead of trying to write an intelligent reply are spineless douches.
#6
hugo
- Big Time BS'er
- Group: Registered Members
- Posts: 1,884
- Joined: 27-August 07
Posted 10 March 2010 - 02:21 PM
Obama has 51 votes in the Senate, the House is his problem.
I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. – Will Rogers
An Avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. It leads men to stretch, to misinterpret, and to misapply even the best of laws. He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he a establishes a precedent that will reach to himself. – Thomas Paine (1795)
Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. – Frederic Bastiat
Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others? – Thomas Jefferson (1801)
This country is a one-party country. Half of it is called Republican and half is called Democrat. It doesn't make any difference. All the really good ideas belong to the Libertarians. – Hugh Downs (1997)
Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. – Daniel Webster (1782-1852)
Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance. – H.L. Mencken
An Avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. It leads men to stretch, to misinterpret, and to misapply even the best of laws. He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he a establishes a precedent that will reach to himself. – Thomas Paine (1795)
Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. – Frederic Bastiat
Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others? – Thomas Jefferson (1801)
This country is a one-party country. Half of it is called Republican and half is called Democrat. It doesn't make any difference. All the really good ideas belong to the Libertarians. – Hugh Downs (1997)
Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. – Daniel Webster (1782-1852)
Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance. – H.L. Mencken
#7
Times
- I love milk and cookies
- Group: Registered Members
- Posts: 3,499
- Joined: 28-August 07
- LocationMaking tyrants be themselves
Posted 10 March 2010 - 04:24 PM
hugo said:
Obama has 51 votes in the Senate, the House is his problem.
I guess I didn't ask my question correctly so let me try again.
What the House has to vote for first is the senate bill that has many things the House members do not want, but the senate people do want. Once their version has been approved with all the goodies and such they wanted and is signed into law by Obama, what is the motivation for the Senate to pass new legislation to change it?
Anything new would be to eliminate things they wanted, I just know that once the ball is back in their court they will demand even more consessions and promises from the President or they will just not pass anything.
In short, anything new will be 100% against them and their ideas, so why would they want to pass it? Just to make Obama happy? If that was a consideration this process would have ended 6 months ago.
If you can't beat them, lie about them
I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody. ~ Bill Cosby
Quote
Anna Perenna thinks people who give negative rep instead of trying to write an intelligent reply are spineless douches.
#8
hugo
- Big Time BS'er
- Group: Registered Members
- Posts: 1,884
- Joined: 27-August 07
Posted 11 March 2010 - 09:19 AM
timesjoke said:
I guess I didn't ask my question correctly so let me try again.
What the House has to vote for first is the senate bill that has many things the House members do not want, but the senate people do want. Once their version has been approved with all the goodies and such they wanted and is signed into law by Obama, what is the motivation for the Senate to pass new legislation to change it?
Anything new would be to eliminate things they wanted, I just know that once the ball is back in their court they will demand even more consessions and promises from the President or they will just not pass anything.
In short, anything new will be 100% against them and their ideas, so why would they want to pass it? Just to make Obama happy? If that was a consideration this process would have ended 6 months ago.
What the House has to vote for first is the senate bill that has many things the House members do not want, but the senate people do want. Once their version has been approved with all the goodies and such they wanted and is signed into law by Obama, what is the motivation for the Senate to pass new legislation to change it?
Anything new would be to eliminate things they wanted, I just know that once the ball is back in their court they will demand even more consessions and promises from the President or they will just not pass anything.
In short, anything new will be 100% against them and their ideas, so why would they want to pass it? Just to make Obama happy? If that was a consideration this process would have ended 6 months ago.
They are all Democrats, they are all socialists, they agree on 98% of commie care already. Worse case scenario is they accept 2% they don't like. If it passes the house the senate is in the bag.
I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. – Will Rogers
An Avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. It leads men to stretch, to misinterpret, and to misapply even the best of laws. He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he a establishes a precedent that will reach to himself. – Thomas Paine (1795)
Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. – Frederic Bastiat
Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others? – Thomas Jefferson (1801)
This country is a one-party country. Half of it is called Republican and half is called Democrat. It doesn't make any difference. All the really good ideas belong to the Libertarians. – Hugh Downs (1997)
Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. – Daniel Webster (1782-1852)
Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance. – H.L. Mencken
An Avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. It leads men to stretch, to misinterpret, and to misapply even the best of laws. He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he a establishes a precedent that will reach to himself. – Thomas Paine (1795)
Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. – Frederic Bastiat
Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others? – Thomas Jefferson (1801)
This country is a one-party country. Half of it is called Republican and half is called Democrat. It doesn't make any difference. All the really good ideas belong to the Libertarians. – Hugh Downs (1997)
Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. – Daniel Webster (1782-1852)
Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance. – H.L. Mencken
#9
Times
- I love milk and cookies
- Group: Registered Members
- Posts: 3,499
- Joined: 28-August 07
- LocationMaking tyrants be themselves
Posted 11 March 2010 - 12:18 PM
hugo said:
They are all Democrats, they are all socialists, they agree on 98% of commie care already. Worse case scenario is they accept 2% they don't like. If it passes the house the senate is in the bag.
Not all Democrats are the same just like not all Republicans are the same and just like the vast majority of Libertarians in America voted for the socialist Obama this past election when normally Libertarians tend to be conservative.
If Libertarians can vote socialist, then I see a possibility that some Democrats on the more moderate side of their party can vote conservative minded sometimes.
My main point is the members of the Senate need a reason to pass the changes other then they were asked to do it by the House and Obama. In fact there are a lot of hurt feelings from members in the Senate from all the bully tactics and some of the attacks made against them as a body for some of the "sweet deals" the senate included in their package. Humans tend to be very stubborn sometimes.
I can certainly be wrong, but I just do not see these Senate Democrats doing anything blindly just because some of their "leaders" of the party said to do it, if that were the case they would have done this in a month and been done with it before Obama lost his magic number 60.
If you can't beat them, lie about them
I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody. ~ Bill Cosby
Quote
Anna Perenna thinks people who give negative rep instead of trying to write an intelligent reply are spineless douches.
#10
RoyalOrleans
- I Am Not the Fine Man You Take Me For
-
- Group: Moderators
- Posts: 2,793
- Joined: 05-September 07
- LocationThe Dirty South
Posted 11 March 2010 - 02:11 PM
Tee Jay said:
I can certainly be wrong, but I just do not see these Senate Democrats doing anything blindly just because some of their "leaders" of the party said to do it, if that were the case they would have done this in a month and been done with it before Obama lost his magic number 60.
I'll agree with that.
The sole purpose of the bulk of the politicians on the Hill is to get re-elected.
It's a mistake to think that poor people get the benefit from the welfare system. It's a total fraud. Most welfare go to the rich of this country: the military-industrial complex, the bankers, the foreign dictators, it's totally out of control. This idea that the government has services or goods that they can pass on is a complete farce. Governments have nothing. They can't create anything, they never have. All they can do is steal from one group and give it to another at the destruction of the principles of freedom, and we ought to challenge that concept. - Ron Paul
#11
Times
- I love milk and cookies
- Group: Registered Members
- Posts: 3,499
- Joined: 28-August 07
- LocationMaking tyrants be themselves
Posted 12 March 2010 - 12:22 PM
I was watching some news shows last night and they interviewed several people involved in the mess. I don't know if these guys are just playing a game but they seem very soild in their refusal to trust the Senate to pass new legislation if they vote for this bill in the House.
I can remember over the years that there has always been a certain level of distrust between the House and Senate even between members of the same party for a very long time and maybe this old bad blood is taking it's toll now.
Or maybe these guys are just holding out for their own special gimmie deal that other politicians have been given.
I can remember over the years that there has always been a certain level of distrust between the House and Senate even between members of the same party for a very long time and maybe this old bad blood is taking it's toll now.
Or maybe these guys are just holding out for their own special gimmie deal that other politicians have been given.
If you can't beat them, lie about them
I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody. ~ Bill Cosby
Quote
Anna Perenna thinks people who give negative rep instead of trying to write an intelligent reply are spineless douches.
#12
Times
- I love milk and cookies
- Group: Registered Members
- Posts: 3,499
- Joined: 28-August 07
- LocationMaking tyrants be themselves
Posted 17 March 2010 - 01:04 PM
Okay, so now they are talking about "deeming" the bill into law so that the members in the house do not have to actually put their name on a vote for this piece of garbage.....interesting.
Obama is supposed to be on the evil FOX news tonight, I am going to watch that and see what he has to say, I wonder how he will defend this new game? If their so ashamed of the bill that they are too scared to actually vote for it, that should be a clue to Obama that they should not do it.
Obama is supposed to be on the evil FOX news tonight, I am going to watch that and see what he has to say, I wonder how he will defend this new game? If their so ashamed of the bill that they are too scared to actually vote for it, that should be a clue to Obama that they should not do it.
If you can't beat them, lie about them
I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody. ~ Bill Cosby
Quote
Anna Perenna thinks people who give negative rep instead of trying to write an intelligent reply are spineless douches.
#13
RoyalOrleans
- I Am Not the Fine Man You Take Me For
-
- Group: Moderators
- Posts: 2,793
- Joined: 05-September 07
- LocationThe Dirty South
Posted 17 March 2010 - 02:07 PM
Last ditch efforts of a truly desperate man whose presidency will be defined by failing to pass this healthcare bill.
At the very least, we know that Obama will be rendered impotent in November. Though I don't like the old "lesser evil" bullshit, I happen to like some of my local GOP boys.
I wonder who will interview Obama... probably some lefty from the Network. In vain hopes, I would like it to be an economist opposed to the bill rather than a typicalcommentator.
At the very least, we know that Obama will be rendered impotent in November. Though I don't like the old "lesser evil" bullshit, I happen to like some of my local GOP boys.
I wonder who will interview Obama... probably some lefty from the Network. In vain hopes, I would like it to be an economist opposed to the bill rather than a typicalcommentator.
It's a mistake to think that poor people get the benefit from the welfare system. It's a total fraud. Most welfare go to the rich of this country: the military-industrial complex, the bankers, the foreign dictators, it's totally out of control. This idea that the government has services or goods that they can pass on is a complete farce. Governments have nothing. They can't create anything, they never have. All they can do is steal from one group and give it to another at the destruction of the principles of freedom, and we ought to challenge that concept. - Ron Paul
#14
Times
- I love milk and cookies
- Group: Registered Members
- Posts: 3,499
- Joined: 28-August 07
- LocationMaking tyrants be themselves
Posted 17 March 2010 - 02:37 PM
It is supposed to be that Bret guy at 6pm, I have seen him a few times, I mostly like to catch his ending of the show where he has a round table with some other media guys who talk about their opinions of things.
If you can't beat them, lie about them
I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody. ~ Bill Cosby
Quote
Anna Perenna thinks people who give negative rep instead of trying to write an intelligent reply are spineless douches.
#15
IWS
- Super Moderator
-
- Group: Moderators
- Posts: 5,663
- Joined: 22-September 07
Posted 17 March 2010 - 03:27 PM
I think Bret Beir will do a good job. He used to be a Fox News White House corrospondant so he knows a bit about what goes on.
There are only three kinds of liberal/progressives.
1 - The elite, who believes he knows better how to run your life than you.
2 - The incompetent, who truly can't run their lives by themselves.
3 - The ignorant, who can't see what the elites are doing.
Hundreds of members of the media and university professors, pledged to fix the story and cover for the Messiah, but leftists will argue that it's OK, they should still be entitled to first amendment, freedom of the press, rights. Cuz it's their guy.
1 - The elite, who believes he knows better how to run your life than you.
2 - The incompetent, who truly can't run their lives by themselves.
3 - The ignorant, who can't see what the elites are doing.
Hundreds of members of the media and university professors, pledged to fix the story and cover for the Messiah, but leftists will argue that it's OK, they should still be entitled to first amendment, freedom of the press, rights. Cuz it's their guy.
#16
RoyalOrleans
- I Am Not the Fine Man You Take Me For
-
- Group: Moderators
- Posts: 2,793
- Joined: 05-September 07
- LocationThe Dirty South
Posted 17 March 2010 - 05:45 PM
Maybe Obama will explain the details of the bill, instead of just simply saying "it must pass". Hah!
For Christ's Sake... the progressive democrats have had an entire year to explain the bill.
If they can't tell you, then you definitely don't want it!
For Christ's Sake... the progressive democrats have had an entire year to explain the bill.
If they can't tell you, then you definitely don't want it!
It's a mistake to think that poor people get the benefit from the welfare system. It's a total fraud. Most welfare go to the rich of this country: the military-industrial complex, the bankers, the foreign dictators, it's totally out of control. This idea that the government has services or goods that they can pass on is a complete farce. Governments have nothing. They can't create anything, they never have. All they can do is steal from one group and give it to another at the destruction of the principles of freedom, and we ought to challenge that concept. - Ron Paul
#17
IWS
- Super Moderator
-
- Group: Moderators
- Posts: 5,663
- Joined: 22-September 07
Posted 17 March 2010 - 06:02 PM
Dick Hertzer, on 17 March 2010 - 12:45 PM, said:
Maybe Obama will explain the details of the bill, instead of just simply saying "it must pass". Hah!
For Christ's Sake... the progressive democrats have had an entire year to explain the bill.
If they can't tell you, then you definitely don't want it!
For Christ's Sake... the progressive democrats have had an entire year to explain the bill.
If they can't tell you, then you definitely don't want it!
You need to listen to Princess Pelosi better. You have to pass the bill to see what's in it.
There are only three kinds of liberal/progressives.
1 - The elite, who believes he knows better how to run your life than you.
2 - The incompetent, who truly can't run their lives by themselves.
3 - The ignorant, who can't see what the elites are doing.
Hundreds of members of the media and university professors, pledged to fix the story and cover for the Messiah, but leftists will argue that it's OK, they should still be entitled to first amendment, freedom of the press, rights. Cuz it's their guy.
1 - The elite, who believes he knows better how to run your life than you.
2 - The incompetent, who truly can't run their lives by themselves.
3 - The ignorant, who can't see what the elites are doing.
Hundreds of members of the media and university professors, pledged to fix the story and cover for the Messiah, but leftists will argue that it's OK, they should still be entitled to first amendment, freedom of the press, rights. Cuz it's their guy.
#18
Times
- I love milk and cookies
- Group: Registered Members
- Posts: 3,499
- Joined: 28-August 07
- LocationMaking tyrants be themselves
Posted 17 March 2010 - 07:25 PM
Dick Hertzer, on 17 March 2010 - 01:45 PM, said:
Maybe Obama will explain the details of the bill, instead of just simply saying "it must pass". Hah!
For Christ's Sake... the progressive democrats have had an entire year to explain the bill.
If they can't tell you, then you definitely don't want it!
For Christ's Sake... the progressive democrats have had an entire year to explain the bill.
If they can't tell you, then you definitely don't want it!
Well it is hard to tell people what the details are when they are still making changes and adding stuff like the sweetheart deals to buy votes.
I believe Obama is going to try and make a case for ignoring public opinion and doing what he feels is "right" even if the people do not agree with him. They want to do this anyway but I think he is still wondering if he can get away with it. Come November he believes he will be a lame duck no matter what he does so he wants this passed as his legacy.
If you can't beat them, lie about them
I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody. ~ Bill Cosby
Quote
Anna Perenna thinks people who give negative rep instead of trying to write an intelligent reply are spineless douches.
#19
RoyalOrleans
- I Am Not the Fine Man You Take Me For
-
- Group: Moderators
- Posts: 2,793
- Joined: 05-September 07
- LocationThe Dirty South
Posted 17 March 2010 - 08:08 PM
Times, on 17 March 2010 - 03:25 PM, said:
Well it is hard to tell people what the details are when they are still making changes and adding stuff like the sweetheart deals to buy votes.
I believe Obama is going to try and make a case for ignoring public opinion and doing what he feels is "right" even if the people do not agree with him. They want to do this anyway but I think he is still wondering if he can get away with it. Come November he believes he will be a lame duck no matter what he does so he wants this passed as his legacy.
I believe Obama is going to try and make a case for ignoring public opinion and doing what he feels is "right" even if the people do not agree with him. They want to do this anyway but I think he is still wondering if he can get away with it. Come November he believes he will be a lame duck no matter what he does so he wants this passed as his legacy.
As we all know good and well, Obama is a liar. Plain and simple. Everything that comes out of his mouth is a lie. Obama assumes the stupidity of the people when he says, one of his favorite lines, "let me explain it more clearly". Yet.... he has had an entire year to explain it more clearly!
He can't tell you what is in the Bill, because he doesn't know what it in the Bill. The strings that control Obama feed him talking points to harp on while Pelosi and Reid do the dirty work. All Obama does is campaign and smile for the camera.
Despite my utter contempt for Pelosi and Reid, they will be humiliated themselves in November, Obama will be the one to take the fall from this disaster. A new Senate will force Obama to lean more centrist to forgo his dreams of a centrally planned economy. And yes, I agree, he'll be a lame duck.
I wonder what the next invented crisis will be?
It's a mistake to think that poor people get the benefit from the welfare system. It's a total fraud. Most welfare go to the rich of this country: the military-industrial complex, the bankers, the foreign dictators, it's totally out of control. This idea that the government has services or goods that they can pass on is a complete farce. Governments have nothing. They can't create anything, they never have. All they can do is steal from one group and give it to another at the destruction of the principles of freedom, and we ought to challenge that concept. - Ron Paul
