[Phreakwars]

People Turn More Liberal With Age | LiveScience

So the myth has been debunked, a myth probably created by a conservative. :rolleyes:

Seeings how we we have a new wave of liberals in the younger generations, if this scenario of seniors turning more liberal holds true, the conservative movement in our world, will hopefully one day (god willing), be a thing of ancient history.
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[IWS]

This is only because in the last 30 years, more and more of the population is getting closer to retirement age, and want the government to take care of them, because they failed to plan for retirement.

They banked on Social Security. :rolleyes:

[wez]

Welcome to the liberal party... :rolleyes:


Last time I said that to someone, I was in a week long fight for my account. :D

[IWS]

wez said:

Welcome to the liberal party... :rolleyes:


Last time I said that to someone, I was in a week long fight for my account. :D

Is this the point where I'm supposed to get offended and start the personal attacks?:rolleyes:

[wez]

ImWithStupid said:

Is this the point where I'm supposed to get offended and start the personal attacks?:rolleyes:

Only those who know me knew I meant it as a personal attack.. a damn serious one too. This is where you ask me what's so bad about being called liberal after validating benders right to phreak out on me for the next week for not really calling him a liberal. :D

Right, eddo?

[IWS]

Seriously though. I really doubt that I will ever be swayed enough to be considered a liberal. In my opinion most of what liberals are about either flies in the face of the founding fathers or abuses the common sense vagueness that they left in the plans for our nation.

Take these quotes from Ben Franklin and compare it to todays liberal ideals of wanting to give handouts and subsidies to everyone or take from the "haves" and hand it to the "have nots".

Quote

I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. ~ Benjamin Franklin 11-29-1766

"In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer." ~ Ben Franklin, 11-29-1766

Sounds like Ben wasn't a liberal either and definitely wouldn't like what either Hillary or Obama have planned.

[wez]

Honestly, I find these labels useless as I think everyone has their views on each specific issue. We're all individuals, not labels. I do find myself siding with human life rather than currency in most situations. If that makes me a liberal, so be it. But personal responsibility comes first and foremost.. and don't believe in coddling stupidity. Make a mistake, learn from it. Not rocket science.

Plus, I think the label has changed drastically from what it was for the founding fathers.. It used to mean individual freedom first and foremost.. Not pinko communism.. Conservative has lost it's identity too it seems. Just words for people to choose sides and divide while both parties give us the shaft in much the same way..

[IWS]

wez said:

Plus, I think the label has changed drastically from what it was for the founding fathers.. It used to mean individual freedom first and foremost.. Not pinko communism.. Conservative has lost it's identity too it seems. Just words for people to choose sides and divide while both parties give us the shaft in much the same way..

I don't know how much liberals and conservatives have lost their identity. I think that true liberals and true conservatives are still just that. The people who have lost their identity are the political parties. The standard idea that Dems are liberals and especially the idea that Repubs are conservatives, have lost any correlation.

I do agree with you that whether it's a Dem or Repub, they don't care about the people they are supposed to represent. All they do, is work for the next election, while accomplishing little, if anything, for the people, in between.

[wez]

From commipedia..


Classical liberalism (also known as traditional liberalism[1] and laissez-faire liberalism,[2] or, in much of the world, simply called liberalism) is a doctrine stressing individual freedom and limited government. This includes the importance of human rationality, individual property rights, natural rights, the protection of civil liberties, constitutional limitations of government, free markets, and individual freedom from restraint as exemplified in the writings of Adam Smith, John Stuart Mill,[3] Montesquieu, Voltaire,[4] Thomas Paine and others. As such, it is seen as the fusion of economic liberalism with political liberalism.[2] The "normative core" of classical liberalism is the idea that laissez-faire economics will bring about a spontaneous order or invisible hand that benefits the society,[5] though it does not necessarily oppose the state's provision of a few basic public goods.[6]

The qualification classical was applied in retrospect to distinguish early nineteenth-century liberalism from evolutions in liberal thought during the 19th and early 20th centuries, especially the "new liberalism" associated with Thomas Hill Green, Leonard Trelawny Hobhouse,[7] and Franklin D. Roosevelt,[8] which grants the state a more interventionist role in the economy, including a welfare state. Classical liberalism is not to be confused with the ideology that is commonly called "liberalism" today in the United States, as "classical liberalism" is actually closer to being a tendency of "conservatism" in the U.S.[9]


Seems someone has been playing my favorite game. Role reversal. :D

[IWS]

I see your point.

I guess I was referring to the labels in a more recent past view. Like the last century.

[hugo]

ImWithStupid said:

This is only because in the last 30 years, more and more of the population is getting closer to retirement age, and want the government to take care of them, because they failed to plan for retirement.

They banked on Social Security. :rolleyes:

Yep, the people that don't work tend to be liberal.

[Old Salt]

Modern day liberalism seems closer to socialism. Modern day conservatism seems to be closer to facism. The only thing that hasn't changed (much) is the moderate view. And that is inching toward liberalism as far as labels go. I prefer no label and actually thinking things through for myself. I may waver from one end to the other, depending on the subject, due to my life experiences. Some may call me a liberal or a conservative on some points and that doesn't bother me at all - it's only their view of where I stand.

[Times]

Old Salt said:

Modern day liberalism seems closer to socialism. Modern day conservatism seems to be closer to facism. The only thing that hasn't changed (much) is the moderate view. And that is inching toward liberalism as far as labels go. I prefer no label and actually thinking things through for myself. I may waver from one end to the other, depending on the subject, due to my life experiences. Some may call me a liberal or a conservative on some points and that doesn't bother me at all - it's only their view of where I stand.

The labels become useful to follow trends of one group or another. A person who kills only once a year and follows a pattern is still a serial killer even if he is not killing someone every day.


We are all complex beings and we move one way or another from time to time but there are a few basic consepts that do define us certain ways. A belief that welfare is good for society or that playing Robin Hood to take from the rich and give to the poor, the federal government should control the states, killing unborn children is okay, these are basic Liberal truths today.

Giving more power to the States, less welfare, life is valuable inside and outside the womb, lower taxes, secure the borders, and have a strong military are a few examples of basic truths of Conservatives today.

[wez]

I think anyone who needs a group to do their thinking for them aint worth following in the first place. Whoever the label is seems to want to "take care" of all of us whether we want them to or not, then blame us for their failings. Some people always need to hide behind others.

[Phreakwars]

Might as well call oneself a Liberal, conservative values more and more show themselves to be a joke based on a "self righteous indignation".

The "LIBERAL" movement can be traced all the way back to the time of Martin Luther who founded the Lutheran church in the 16th century.

In a nut shell, Luther looked at the traditional Christian views of the Roman church and said. "HEY, THIS IS COMPLETE BULL****", AND THUS, the LIBERAL movement was spawned.

There have been many branches of Christianity over the century's who have became liberated and strayed from the Catholic doctrines, we know these today as Protestants (or protesters). Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans, etc, etc, etc...

However, alot of these protestants don't view themselves as "LIBERAL" by the definition used in today's society.

Today a Liberal is viewed as someone who believes in INDIVIDUAL freedoms over a collective stance .

The benefit of this is EQUALITY. Something that you never get in a more conservative environment.

The new age conservative will try to use the word LIBERAL as a metaphor and basically a dirty word, as a means of denouncing it's principals.

However, in a FREE society, being Liberal, is almost inevitable as one starts to take on their own thoughts over the thoughts of a collective.
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[wez]

"We" are Borg.. You are a liberal! "We" will assimilate you into the collective. Resistance is futile.

I will NOT assimilate!
I will NOT assimilate!
I will NOT assimilate!
I will NOT assimilate!

**** you I wont do what you tell me!
**** you I wont do what you tell me!
**** you I wont do what you tell me!
**** you I wont do what you tell me! :D

Give me liberty or give me death ~ Patrick Henry

[hugo]

Bender said:

Today a Liberal is viewed as someone who believes in INDIVIDUAL freedoms over a collective stance .


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What you are describing is a classical liberal. In the United States the socialists stole the liberal label. We classical liberals have had to resort to the word libertarian. Universal healthcare is a collectivist idea.

[wez]

hugo said:

What you are describing is a classical liberal. In the United States the socialists stole the liberal label. We classical liberals have had to resort to the word libertarian. Universal healthcare is a collectivist idea.

I, wez, being of partially sound mind and body do hereby label myself, libertarian. Thank you.