Stupidity vs Ignorance

[ToriAllen]

Found this quote online:

"I can tolerate ignorance must easier than I can tolerate stupid; ignorance has a remedy, stupid doesn't"

Funny, I feel the exact opposite. I think stupid has an excuse where ignorance doesn't.

Just curious as to your thoughts... Which annoys you more?

 

[Builder]

If ignorance is bliss, then some people are already in their own private version of heaven.

As a teacher, I took on students and trainees who had been labelled as "stoopid" by educators who simply had no patience to learn what style of education or pedagogy applied to that particular student. Some learn from repeated observation, some from repeated practice, and some have been labelled "stoopid" for so long, they start to believe it themselves.

Ignorance, IMHO, is simply a lack of knowledge, coupled with no real reason to accumulate the knowledge base required to understand the issue at hand. Personally, I struggled with some of the more complex mathematical equations during high school, not that I was a slouch with maths, it was my second favourite subject, but all those x's and y's were meaningless to me. Give me whole numbers, or even complex fractions of whole numbers, and I'd give you an answer pronto.

My math teacher favoured those who understood, and ignored those who didn't. A change of teacher in my sub-senior year with the subsequent change in pedagogy, resulted in a big change in my learning capability. I saw the reason for the x's and y's, and the whole picture came into focus. I went from being "stoopid" to being bored with the slow rate of progress of some of the previous teacher's pets. Once the REASON for learning is made clear, the effort becomes less.

Why, for example, would an interstate truck driver need to know algebra? He might be able to analyse the racing form guide, or get top marks on the football tipping contest, but not knowing algebra automatically makes him ignorant?

I don't know, Tori. The question needs some clarification.

There are some genuinely stupid people by birthright, I guess. Then there are some genuinely ignorant people by choice.

They simply don't need, or want to know.

 

[mercury]

I think I have more patience for stupid.

Ignorance implies they have the capacity to know and just choose not to know, ya know?

 

[ToriAllen]

If ignorance is bliss, then some people are already in their own private version of heaven.

I don't know, Tori. The question needs some clarification.

There are some genuinely stupid people by birthright, I guess. Then there are some genuinely ignorant people by choice.

They simply don't need, or want to know.

I'm talking about more general knowledge stuff, than specified fields. Obviously, everyone is ignorant of something. It is more the mentality of ignorance that is frustrating.

Merc's right. Some people have the capacity to understand, but they close themselves off to it.

As for your school example, I would have much more tolerance for a student that was genuinely having a hard time understanding the material, than one who was capable of understanding but chose to goof off or throw their hands up and say screw it. On a less bright line level, that's kind of the same thing.

 

[mercury]

Plus my Daddy always said "You can't fix stupid!"

 

[*Chi*]

I can pity the ignorant, just a bit. They haven't been exposed to much. They at least are dumb because of lack of information and resources.

The stupid are just stupid cuz their stupid, annoying, hardheaded and stubborn.

 

[*Chi*]

Therefore I agree with the quote. The ignorant can be taught thru education, information and resources.

The stupid are usually hopeless. I think THEY are the ones who choose to be that way unless they are born stupid or slow.

 

[ToriAllen]

I can pity the ignorant, just a bit. They haven't been exposed to much. They at least are dumb because of lack of information and resources.

The stupid are just stupid cuz their stupid, annoying, hardheaded and stubborn.

Therefore I agree with the quote. The ignorant can be taught thru education, information and resources.

The stupid are usually hopeless. I think THEY are the ones who choose to be that way unless they are born stupid or slow.

Stupid means you try to learn and you just can't. Everything else you are attaching to the term stupid such as "choose to be that way", "stubborn", and "hardheaded" are the terms that refer to the people who are ignorant(i.e. - have the capacity to learn but don't).

Some people are ignnorant because they haven't been exposed to much, but the majority choose to remain that way. No one can choose to be stupid(referring to mental capacity/capability), you just are or you aren't. Which is why I say, at least they have an excuse.

However, a smart person can choose to act stupid which is generally because they choose to remain ignorant.

 

[*Chi*]

I can pity the ignorant, just a bit. They haven't been exposed to much. They at least are dumb because of lack of information and resources.

The stupid are just stupid cuz their stupid, annoying, hardheaded and stubborn.

Therefore I agree with the quote. The ignorant can be taught thru education, information and resources.

The stupid are usually hopeless. I think THEY are the ones who choose to be that way unless they are born stupid or slow.

Stupid means you try to learn and you just can't. Everything else you are attaching to the term stupid such as "choose to be that way", "stubborn", and "hardheaded" are the terms that refer to the people who are ignorant(i.e. - have the capacity to learn but don't).

Some people are ignnorant because they haven't been exposed to much, but the majority choose to remain that way. No one can choose to be stupid(referring to mental capacity/capability), you just are or you aren't. Which is why I say, at least they have an excuse.

However, a smart person can choose to act stupid which is generally because they choose to remain ignorant.

I disagree, but either way, as to who annoys me more - I take it case by case.

 

[Builder]

Okay then, how about this?

Ignorance is a choice.

Stupid,as a descriptor, is stigmatising.

 

[ToriAllen]

You're right Builder. The first question was too vague...

It pretty much boils down to this:

Does a person who can't learn or is slow to learn based on mental capacity(stupid)annoy you more?

or

Does a person who is uneducated, unaware or uninformed, either through circumstances or choice(ignorance) annoy you more?

I didn't come up with the definitions. They have been part of the English language since long before I was born. Even the original quote listed is based on the fact that you can't really change stupid. There is a big difference with refusing to learn because you are stubborn and having a hard time learning because you are stupid. Society uses a lot of terms to refer to people they don't actually apply to. If I call my husband retarded for instance, that does not mean that the actual meaning of the term should apply to someone making a poor decision (hypothetical not based on actual fact). A lot of people use the term stupid to refer to others in a sarcastic and derogatory way, but that doesn't mean the actual definition encompasses them.

Some people get more easily frustrated with people who can have things explained over and over and still don't get it. (stupid)

and

Some people can be more easily frustrated by the person who has the ability to understand, but does not listen or take the time to try. (ignorance)

That is where the question lies. When talking to/debating with/explaining to someone, which type frustrates you more: The person who can't understand, or the person who won’t?

 

[Times]

I believe you describe the problem well Tori, these descriptive words have been misused for so long that a true understanding is difficult because each of us develop our own concepts of what is or is not "stupid".

I don't really buy into the "stupid" concept very much, as Builder pointed out, some people just learn differently from other people. I don't like the word stupid because many times people were just never exposed to either the right way to learn "for them" or maybe they just never had exposures to whatever it is someone is talking to them about. I can "shade tree" weld for example. I have never had formal training but I can do it. Now, does that make me smart to those who can't weld or stupid to those who have formal training or who can do more complex welding than I can?

The word ignorant is pretty much in the same boat, more often than not the word is used to describe those who do not want to agree with us or see the world the way we see it. Most people believe that if they can't get the other people to agree with them, then that other person must be ignorant because we see ourselves as "right" and those who don't agree with us as "wrong" so their refusal to agree must mean they are just stupid or ignorant.

I believe we all share the ability to learn and understand, we just have to reach those abilities in different ways sometimes.

Consider both versions of the question for a moment, the real question is not about the subject being stupid or ignorant, but why your getting irritated in the first place? Why get irritated or angry over someone else's lack of ability to see things the way you see them?

 

[ToriAllen]

Consider both versions of the question for a moment, the real question is not about the subject being stupid or ignorant, but why your getting irritated in the first place? Why get irritated or angry over someone else's lack of ability to see things the way you see them?

No, you would not be stupid to the formally trained welders, but you might be ignorant of some concepts that they have learned, because that is the proper way to use the words. Now if you are incapable of ever learning those concepts, either on your own or in training, then they would probably think you are stupid.

Ok, examples then:

My in-law was most definitely stupid. It was not about any kind of learning style. She just had mental capacity issues. She had the emotional mental capacity of a 15 year old(as diagnosed by a doctor) and could not grasp simple concepts. Watching a movie with her was like watching a movie with me 7 year old, and she asked the same kind of questions. The kind of sublties most alduts could grasp easily. She had wealthy parents and went to a good school, but could not tell you what half of 14 was or who our first president was...inability to learn. She was kind of annoying, but I had a lot of patience with her, because I know it was not her fault. I have met many people over the years who were different levels of stupid. Saying there are no stupid people and it is just 'learning style', is like saying there are no fat people it is just 'body type'. It's true for some, but not for all.

I get annoyed with ignorance, especially willing ignorance, and it has nothing to do with agree with me. If you have a well thought out view, then good for you; I really don't care if you agree with me or not. The best example of this is politics. There are so many people who go to the polls and vote for a party because their parents did and everyone they know does. They are completely ignorant of what either party actually represents, and when talking to them they describe their values and beliefs to you about politics and the views are actually in line with the opposite party from the one they voted for. I tend to be more conservative, but I have a lot of friends who are liberals and know the issues inside out. I don't share their views, but I respect them. I have also met some conservatives who were not conservative at all, but they voted that way because they always had and their parents always had. This is the kind of stuff I get annoyed with much more than my in-law.

 

[Times]

Of cours you are correct on the "correct" usage of the terms Tori, but more often than not that is not the common usage of those words. Modern usage does sometimes change the words even if we don't want them to. Consider how many words are used to describe breasts: http://www.listaholic.com/138-slang-words-for-breasts.html

When it comes to the words stupid and ignorant, they tend to be used as derogatory terms tossed at those who do not agree with the speaker.

As you described in your example, people who have mental disorders and "can't" learn as most people can are not something to create feelings of irritation, they can't help how they are no more than you can blame a cow for not knowing how to fly.

Ignorance as your correctly using it is a problem sometimes, but I rarely find myself feeling any emotional reaction for that kind of thing, people are the way they are, the only thing that really irritates me are those who seem to get angry without good cause, take your politics example, many even here will get all worked up and make personal attacks on me because I do not confrom to their beliefs. I do not agree with many people here but I have never been angry with a single person for not sharing my belief on a debate. The give and take is cool, I can get as spirited as the next guy, but I see no reason for the emotional outbursts.

Most people really have no clue why they believe what they believe, as you correctly point out, many people will vote for one thing or another because they are expected to, or their family does, ect, but if you actually pin them down on the details of "why" they believe what they believe most will look at you with a blank expression because they don't really know. I am the first person to say I can be very hard headed on certain things, but I always have a sold reason to offer why I believe what I believe, I don't do blind following.

 

[wez]

Hey TJ.. I see you've commandeered another thread to attempt to repeat your delusions of superiority into reality and espouse your glorious existence.. good for you.. keep it up.. you might actually fool someone around here someday.. other than Gilligan that is.. hahahaha

The true hypocrite is the one who ceases to perceive his deception, the one who lies with sincerity ~ Andre Gide

Hypocrisy in anything whatever may deceive the cleverest and most penetrating man, but the least wide-awake of children recognizes it, and is revolted by it, however ingeniously it may be disguised ~ Leo Nikolaevich

He who is passionate and hasty, is generally honest; it is your cool dissembling hypocrite, of whom you should beware ~ unknown

There's some truth for ya TJ..

Here's some more.. you suck

 

[Times]

You know Wez, I used to think you fit the description of stupid or ignorant because so much of what you said made no sense at all, but later I discovered that everything you say is designed for a specific result to generate arguements. Once I stopped feeding your desire to argue you got even more angry with me and that is why you follow me around saying things like this. I don't hate you Wez, I don't have a shread of ill feelings for anyone here, I find it impossible to generate those kinds of passions (positive or negative) for strangers over the internet.

But, I accept you for who you are, and I still will try to reply to your less crazy questions but I also know your always trying to direct a discussion to a heated arguement, and I just refuse to go there with you anymore. I admit, I used to, but I was wrong for that, now I have learned better and I hope you too learn that this kind of stuff is just a waste of time.

 

[wez]

Once I stopped feeding your desire to argue you got even more angry with me and that is why you follow me around saying things like this.

Doesn't everyone follow you around oh great one?

 

[hugo]

What I find annoying is laziness.

 

[Phreakwars]

Absolutely IGNORANCE. Can't stand ignorance. Mainly because of the key word in ignorance.... IGNORE.

Ignorant people ignore reality, ignore truth, ignore their fellow man, ignore the basic commandments of life, ignore others individual freedoms and choices. The ignorant ignore these things, because it's not what they personally believe in.

Ask yourself this, would you rather be murdered, shot down dead, by someone who is ignorant about who you are as a person, or someone who accidentally shot a gun hitting you with the bullet inside.

Who does society tend to forgive more, the ignorant, or those who just did something careless and stupid?

It's not a hard question at all, hands down, ignorance is way worse then stupidity.

.

.

 

[outlaw2747]

Tough question. I believe it depends on the level of both as far as what pisses me off. Although I know the definition of both words I will attempt explain based on a dictionary's definition of both words:

ig?no?rance (?g'n?r-?ns) pronunciation

n.

The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed.

stu?pid?i?ty (st?-p?d'?-t?, sty?-) pronunciation

n., pl., -ties.

1. The quality or condition of being stupid.

2. A stupid act, remark, or idea.

But in order to understand stupidity, I must understand what stupid is. Excuse my analytical habits, it is how I operate:

stu?pid (st?'p?d, sty?'-) pronunciation

adj., -er, -est.

1. Slow to learn or understand; obtuse.

2. Tending to make poor decisions or careless mistakes.

3. Marked by a lack of intelligence or care; foolish or careless: a stupid mistake.

4. Dazed, stunned, or stupefied.

5. Pointless; worthless: a stupid job.

Ignorance is pretty straightforward. It simply means "I don't know." or "I am unaware." I find this acceptable. As humans we are ignorant, there is plenty that we don't know. And that is fine, because it gives us something to look forward to learning. But this is where ignorance pisses me off. I'll dub it stubborn ignorance or hell...bigotry. "I don't know or I am unaware but THIS is how it is even though I have no empirical evidence or sensible explanations because I am right and what you say is wrong/stupid/etc." THAT is where ignorance pisses me off. Being ignorant and not bothering to cure it while one pushes their opinions onto others and declaring others wrong or stupid with little reason. Even worse are the ones who embrace bigoted ignorance like a badge of honor. One who refused to admit to their faults and mistakes. I hope that explains ignorance in my opinion.

Now onto stupidity. As most of you who know me or remember me, I have a low tolerance for a stupid person. Mostly ones similar to the bigoted ignorant above in which I would consider stupid. But let's use a few of the definitions above. When someone is obtuse but is trying, sure it may be annoying but I give the person some credit for trying to cure themselves. Some people just cannot get the gist of something as quick as others. Even I have my "stupid" moments. Which is why you'll never see me engage in politics. All that terminology pretty much eludes me even when explained. To me politics is a bunch of name tossing. In any case, the obtuse person that tries isn't THAT annoying.

Tending to make poor decisions and mistakes, well that depends too. Depends on the severity of the mistake. The worst things imaginable can be done with the best intentions. I believe Alan Grant from Jurassic Park 3 said something like that. If you want to save the whales from extinction so you spend tons and tons of money trying to rescue every beached whale (which apparently costs a lot of money for equipment) and you become broke, well that is stupid but at least it is something you could recover from. Now if you try to save the whales by trying to kill every animal that attacks whales, well that is just straight up stupid beyond belief and you've become a walking disaster. I'm sure I can think of better analogies but you all get the drift.

Marked by a lack of intelligence or care. THIS IS PROBABLY THE WORST. This right here is where I cannot stand stupid people. When you are an idiot and don't care and you exist only to spread your stupidity and hostility like a virus I deem you unfit for breeding and I desire your eradication from the gene pool. Darwin Award winners are a perfect example. Need I say more? ****ing morons.

Being dazed or stupefied happens. Nothing really special. We all take that stupid pill at times, it is people who are stupid for most of their life that are the real danger.

Pointless and useless. Rapists, murderers, and most politicians. Need I say more.

I must admit, there is one more group of people who either fit in or outdo stupid and ignorant people. And that group are...The Delusionals. And in America, it is the deadliest disease ever. I'm sure a lot of you agree.