Smoking in Public Places

[ToriAllen]

I know it is lazy to repost old topics from WPYO, but the board is looking bare and this is one of the ones I have saved on my computer.

 

Over the past few years there has been a push to ban smoking in public places. Obviously, this is not a popular notion to everyone out there. This is what I wrote. Feel free to comment and argue, or agree:

 

I find it ridiculous to see establishments aimed at children, such as McDonalds or other fast food restaurants, which allow smoking. No, this isn?t my only complaint. Smoking in any restaurant is ridiculous. I don?t know of anyone who smokes while they eat; most of the time they light one up before or after the meal. If it is after the meal they hold up the table so that others can not be seated. There is no reason to have smoking sections in restaurants, or any public place. Smoke before you come in to eat and after you leave. That is maybe twenty to thirty minutes. Is it really that difficult to go twenty to thirty minutes without a cigarette? I don?t think this argument has to do with inconvenience at all. I don?t think it would make one bit of difference to anyone. Smokers are just fighting a pointless fight for some perceived right they see being ?infringed? on.

 

Smoking is one of the most selfish addictions. As an adult, you have the right to choose to smoke, but if you have children I implore you not to expose them to the second hand smoke. This can not only increase their risk of cancer when they are older, but also increase their chances of having asthma while they are young.

 

Children who are exposed to smoke are more likely to develop allergies, as well as asthma and asthmatic bronchitis. If the child is under two, he/she is more likely to develop life threatening respiratory infections. Children raised by smokers are more likely to become smokers themselves. So if you smoke around your children, then yes, I think you are selfish.

 

Adults who inhale second hand smoke are more likely to die from lung cancer. Pregnant women who are around second hand smoke are more likely to give birth to premature, underweight babies. To expose others to the risk of cancer without any guilt is selfish, and to choose to expose yourself to second hand smoke when it can be avoided is foolish.

 

If you smoke you are inhaling carbon monoxide, tar, and nicotine along with approximately 397 other toxic substances. You increase your risk of getting cardiovascular diseases such as hypertension (high blood pressure) or coronary thrombosis, leading to heart attack. Cerebral thrombosis, or blockage of vessels in the brain, can lead to a stroke causing paralysis. Smoking also causes kidney failure. Cancer is the big one. 90% of lung cancer cases are related to smoking, but smoking increases the risk of all kinds of cancer, including kidney (which my dad died of), pancreatic, cervical, and bladder cancers. One disease that every long term smoker develops is COPD, or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, which encompasses all conditions that make breathing more difficult. This most often takes the form of emphysema or chronic bronchitis. Most of the time ?smokers cough? is actually chronic bronchitis. Smoking has been known to cause fertility problems and erectile dysfunction as men age. Loss of eyesight and cataracts are also common. Many times smoking leads to periodontal disease, which causes bad breath, swollen gums, and rotting teeth that fall out. Smoking can also lead to acid reflux and ulcers. And finally, it causes more prominent wrinkles at a younger age. A smoker who loves his/her family and wants to be around to see their grandkids should quit. If you love a smoker then you should be encouraging that person to quit smoking not fighting for their right to kill themselves (and others). Trust me; none of the preceding effects are dignifying or glamorous.

 

http://core.ecu.edu/psyc/evansr/EVANS21.HTM

 

http://www.nap.edu/openbook/0309035880/html/249.html

[skategreen]

Tori

 

perhaps I'll recompose later.

 

I had a nice big fat juicy reply all totally grooved on....midway through composing...I answered a phone call. I saved the world that was crumbling prompting the call, and came back and finished the post.

 

Hit submit.

 

Found I'd been kicked outta the site. "logged off" somehow. Perhaps it times out?

 

Lesson learned.

[ToriAllen]

Toriperhaps I'll recompose later.

 

I had a nice big fat juicy reply all totally grooved on....midway through composing...I answered a phone call. I saved the world that was crumbling prompting the call, and came back and finished the post.

 

Hit submit.

 

Found I'd been kicked outta the site. "logged off" somehow. Perhaps it times out?

 

Lesson learned.

It did the same thing to me the other day because I had not clicked the 'remember me' box. Luckly, I'm a horrible speller, so I almost always cut and paste into word before I submit a thread or post.

[snafu]

It’s funny how far we’ve come with cigarettes. I started when I was 14. My Junior High School was considered in the bad part of town and we were allowed to smoke at school to control and keep us detained. I remember the principal bumming a smoke from me. In High school we also had a smoking lounge. In the Navy I remember buying them for 35 cents on base. Everybody smoked. Now people are ostracized for lighting up and for a good reason. It took a long time for people to wake up and figure out that cigarette smoking is one of the lamest things you can do to yourself. Now that I don't smoke anymore I don’t want to be anywhere near a smoker! I used to think that we should not be able to constrict business policies on smoking. But cigarettes are very intrusive and affects anybody in the area. So yes we do need laws to protect us. I do however think that bars should be able to have designated smoking areas with posting stating your enter at your own risk.

[ToriAllen]

I've noticed that change to. You can see it everywhere, and not just with smoking. I'm a big fan of classic movies. How many old movies had drinking on the job or the second the person got home as the norm. Isn't that the first thing they usually ask in the movies when there was an office meeting? You really don't see a whole lot of 'who wants whiskey' in the movies not. Maybe a 'who wants a beer', but not at work. Everyone in the classics smoked too. Men and women. Now it is not uncommon for one character to point out that smoking is unhealthy to the character that is smoking, if there is one. I am always interested in looking at the changing social norms. My parents had smoking sections in their schools as well. In my high school, you could get suspended for smoking on campus.

 

I agree that there should be an acceptation for smoking in bars, but I think the legislature is afraid of opening the door to restaurants that have 'bars' in them, like Red Lobster, Ruby Tuesday, and Apple B's.

[Feckless Wench]

The UK hs recently imposed a ban on smoking in all 'enclosed' public places (those having more than 3 walls)...this includes pubs and clubs, places where children are not allowed anyway. Whilst it's still summer, it's not too much of a problem...I somehow can't see it lasting over the winter though.

 

Am I willing to stand on the street and smoke whilst dressed up in my fetishwear...not bloody likely!

 

I agree with not smoking around kids, I disagree with banning it from adult only areas.

[DougT]

The UK ban seems to me to have gone over the top. The '3 sided building' means that shelters outside can not be enclosed - although they are for the use of Smikers. As pointed out before, when the Winter sets in, there'll be some 'die hard' (excuse the pun) smokers catching goodness knows what, flu, colds, etc.

 

Our liberty to smoke or not to smoke has not actually been affected, but I really don't understand why our freedom of choice couldn't have been preserved. ie have smoking and non-smoking Bars / Clubs. If I didn't want to be / work in a smokey atmosphere then I'd go to a non-smoking establishment and vice versa. I believe that is the case in Spain (but I stand to be corrected)

 

As you'd expect with the UK, the Houses of Parliament are excluded from the ban, since they are a 'Palace'. I don't know how true it is, but there was a report that some MPs decided that they were going to light up in the Commons Bar, as it was exempt, but the Manager (Civil Servant) said "no you're not, the law has been brought in to protect my staff from secondary smoking and I'm banning it here". I really hope that's true and that the individual concerned has still got their job.

 

A Little light hearted:

 

The 'normal' reason for having a ban is to protect others from secondary smoking (about 300 per year in the UK I believe, although how they get the statistics I don't know). With such concern for the Public's health, why hasn't our (or in fact any) Government banned 'ill' people from public places where they could infect (fatally perhaps, in the case of the very young and very old) people ? Every year, round about the end of Autumn we (in the UK) are presented with 'facts and figures' scaring us into believing that the on-coming Flu epidemic is going to kill hundreds of pensioners and old people. (as is Bird Flu and Asian Flu) Now, I believe that the main source of such infections is through contact with an infected person. So wouldn't it make sense to ban the infected people from public places ? We could then have 'Health Police' to go along with our 'Smoking Police'

 

Now we're being told that Obesity is the next biggest killer so I expect the Junk Food outlets will be under as much pressure as the Tobacco Industry was / is, with Government Health Warnings on containers of take-away foods, so in what, about 5 years, we'll also see the 'Food Police' about as well.

 

But, I suppose the ex-McDonnalds employees will need new jobs. :D

[Feckless Wench]

Hello Doug, first of all, good to see a fellow Brit here.

 

Have you noticed how all of the company 'non-smoking' vehicles, who were initially forced to display 'smoke free' stickers in their windows are ALREADY totally ignoring them?

 

My hubby drives a company car. No one else ever goes in it (apart from me and thats MY choice) and yet it is still classed as his workplace and therefore under the ban. The argument here is that 'a mechanic might have to get in it at some point'.

 

What a load of ****e. I'll give the 'ban' one more month before the cold weather sets in and we really start to see it all fall down.

[Times]

Here in Florida we have state laws restricting smoking in all public places.

 

I agree with some of you that there should be an allowance for seperate sections of buildings with their own air conditioning systems (prevent mixing smoky air in non-smoking areas). A big problem was already mentioned and that is workers that need to work around the smoke though and it would be difficult to get past that problem.

 

I smoked for over 20 years and quit but I am not like many ex-smokers where they get hostile to people that still smoke. I never smoked around children, never smoked in my home (screened back porch), rarely smoked in a vehicle, all because I could never impose my bad habit on other people, I just saw that as wrong.

 

Now that I have quit smoking, I can tell you there is a huge benefit to quitting but I don't try to talk people into quitting if they don't want to hear it. I see that it is their choice just like drinking or eating foods that are bad for them, a matter of personal choice, but as I always say, personal choice ends where it effects other people and that is why it is so diffiicult to have smoking areas in public places.

 

A guy once put it to me like this:

 

"Would it be right for me to fart next to you in a restaurant and make you smell it? How about having bad breath and making you smell that? Then why do people think it should be okay to make me smell smoke? I don't like the smell of smoke, it irritates my eyes and my sinuses, I should have the right to not be forced to smell that smoke."

 

Interesting point of view.

[jhony5]

Its gotten so bad in just the last ten years, that I can't even stand in the back of a parking lot and smoke without people looking at me like I'm masturbating.

 

People aren't allowed to smoke within some 80 feet of an entrance to a public building. Yet cars can drive by just a few feet away, spewing far far worse toxic gases all about.

 

I do like TimesJoke, and try so hard not to blow smoke at people, or in any other way force them to breath my smoke. But its never good enough. Theres always some idiot son of a bitch thats going to run their mouth.

 

I'm walkin around Home Depot the other day with my buddy, trying to find plywood. Force of habit, sometimes I keep an unlit cigarette in my mouth, much the same as some people keep a toothpick in their mouth. This ****ing idiot associate approaches me and tells me "Sir, theres no smoking in this building". I tell him and show him its not lit, and the little bastard asks me to put it away. "**** YOU"! Straight up had to tell him, **** you.

 

Thats how bad its gotten. You can't even follow the rules without idiots questioning you.

[skategreen]

Its gotten so bad in just the last ten years, that I can't even stand in the back of a parking lot and smoke without people looking at me like I'm masturbating. People aren't allowed to smoke within some 80 feet of an entrance to a public building. Yet cars can drive by just a few feet away, spewing far far worse toxic gases all about.

 

I do like TimesJoke, and try so hard not to blow smoke at people, or in any other way force them to breath my smoke. But its never good enough. Theres always some idiot son of a bitch thats going to run their mouth.

 

I'm walkin around Home Depot the other day with my buddy, trying to find plywood. Force of habit, sometimes I keep an unlit cigarette in my mouth, much the same as some people keep a toothpick in their mouth. This ****ing idiot associate approaches me and tells me "Sir, theres no smoking in this building". I tell him and show him its not lit, and the little bastard asks me to put it away. "**** YOU"! Straight up had to tell him, **** you.

 

Thats how bad its gotten. You can't even follow the rules without idiots questioning you.

Often I meet folks, chat them up, make fleeting friends in stores. Not long back I met a sweet old guy in Home Depot. He pulled out a smoke and appeared to start smoking - it turned out to be a gag, it had a bit of powder inside - you gently blow on the cig and it looks like smoke. So he hands me one, and we wait a min...

 

a HD employee comes along, see's him "smoking", and just about has a cat fit! Then he turns and sees ME "smoking" - it was an absolute riot.

 

..

 

I remember when Mum would smoke as she grocery shopped, and would huck the butt onto the polished tile floor and grind it out with her foot. The store always had butts on the floor.

 

oh how long ago that all seems NOW!

[Feckless Wench]

A guy once put it to me like this:

 

"Would it be right for me to fart next to you in a restaurant and make you smell it? How about having bad breath and making you smell that? Then why do people think it should be okay to make me smell smoke? I don't like the smell of smoke, it irritates my eyes and my sinuses, I should have the right to not be forced to smell that smoke."

 

Interesting point of view.

Yes it's interesting BUT does it apply to all smells that a person dislikes?

 

Perfume for instance; some women pile it on like they're trying to cover up the smell of a thousand sewage plants, I perosnally hate to be choked by that amount of 'scent'. Is it right for me to tell her to move away?

 

Passive farting, or perfume inhaling for that matter ain't gonna kill you (unless you have an allergy)....passive smoking is. But then so will 'passively' walking down any street with vehicles.

 

It's a stupid law, it needs changing to allow people to have indoor places to smoke. All it is doing is forcing people to stay home and smoke all over their kids rather than go out. It's killing the smaller entertainment facilities (2 pubs already have shut down where I live) and it's irritating people. Why go out for a beer and a ciggy when you can no longer have the ciggy and beer's cheaper in the supermarket?

 

We need areas in any entertainment facility where we can smoke in comfort, just the same as people need areas where they can 'not smoke' in comfort.

[jhony5]

Only back in 1996, a mere 11 years ago, one could puff a smoke while they shopped in the grocery store. Which is nasty and unfair to others. So there are very good outcomes from the publics all out war on secondhand smoke.

 

Ahh the proverbial slippery slope. Here we see it in action. Ban it from a few places, it will be banned in a few more. It starts with the individual business owners right to choose the policy, and morphs into a full blown banishment of smoking cigarettes anywhere within dozens of feet from the entrance to all publicly accessible buildings. People snarling at you when you are seen at a distance smoking. Cigarette prices seen jumping to ridiculous heights as a means to cover short falls in the local governments budget. Soon, prohibition? People in prison for cultivating tobacco?

 

A good idea gone bad.

[DougT]

Hello Doug, first of all, good to see a fellow Brit here.

Thanks for the welcome.

 

Have you noticed how all of the company 'non-smoking' vehicles, who were initially forced to display 'smoke free' stickers in their windows are ALREADY totally ignoring them?

My Daughter lasted about a week without smoking in her Company Car. One of my friends had the sticker sent to him by post and he's stuck it in the Glove Compartment. I'm trying to find a "Smoking Compulsory" one for my car ;)

 

hat a load of ****e. I'll give the 'ban' one more month before the cold weather sets in and we really start to see it all fall down.

I'm not so sure. It's a 'British' thing. You know, how we always obey all the EEC directives down to the last letter whilst other member countries pay lip service to them. I think that Law abiding is in-bred into us. If you look at recent history, the only example of Civil Disobediance actually having an effect has been the Poll-Tax where there was massive Political opposition as well. Where have all the 'trouble making' students gone, where's today's Peter Hain? There's really no one stirring things up anymore, it's left up to the Editors of the tabloids to tell us what the really important issues are !! (eg Beckham's haircut, was Di murdered? etc)

 

You mentioned Pubs closing down. I think that's another thing that has been overlooked. It's, perhaps, another 'British' thing - our Pub Culture - which is going to slowly die a death. When you consider the problems with Drink Driving, Pub Prices compared to Supermarket Prices, now the Smoking Ban, (I'm waiting for HSE to ban the playing of Darts - people throwing small spears around in a public place (sometimes whilst under the influence of alcohol) is actually still allowed) it's not really surprising that the industry is going down the drain. I suppose that massive increases in duty on alcohol (to stop binge drinking) will be the final straw.

 

As Alf Garnet's wife put it "I don't know why they put cancer into tobacco, they never used to" :D :D

 

EDIT: Oh I nearly forgot another lovely quote, I was having a puff in the Garden of my local and the son (about 9 Years old) of a friend was playing around. He came up to me and in a very serious voice asked me if I was "born with Smoking"

[Old Salt]

For all my British friends, I noticed that your Highway Code has been updated to make smoking while driving an offence.

 

He {Mr. Jim Fitzpatrick} said: "A major change is the code's inclusion of smoking at the wheel as behaviour that police may interpret as a distraction and failure to be in proper control of the vehicle.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7017543.stm

 

Next step is banning smoking at home. :(

[ToriAllen]

For all my British friends' date=' I noticed that your Highway Code has been updated to make smoking while driving an offence.http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7017543.stm

 

Next step is banning smoking at home. :(

I thought British road laws were strict in general. No eating or drinking while driving. No cell phones while driving. No picking your nose while driving... Is it really that much of a surprise that they would ban smoking while driving?

[Old Salt]

Looks like they pretty much left it up to the police. They used that word "may" instead of "shall" or "will"....

[DougT]

As we're rapidly becoming a Police State, that's not very surprising. The 'No Smoking' is just like all the other "things you mustn't do whilst driving for safety reasons". These are basically things that allow a Police Officer to stop you, (on grounds of "Driving without due care and attention") then crawl through everything to see if there's a 'bigger' offence they can catch you on.

 

Meanwhile, kids of 10 are being shot, robberies are on the increase, in a lot of cases the Police just don't turn up - they just give a Crime Number so you can get the Insurance.

 

The Lunatics have taken over the Asylum over here.

[ToriAllen]

...kids of 10 are being shot...

Shot with what? Bow and arrow? I thought the general contention was that you didn't have a 'gun problem' over there.

[Old Salt]

A month or so ago (I'm not sure exactly when) a young boy was shot on his way home. :(

[snafu]

In Alaska we have some of the most liberal gun laws. Becuse we understand you don't need a gun to kill someone.

 

http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/crime/story/9345945p-9260495c.html

[RaE]

Yeah, you ******* will just break the ice they're walkin on and let em freeze to death. That way it looks like an accident.

[sheik-yerbouti]

Children who are exposed to smoke are more likely to develop allergies, as well as asthma and asthmatic bronchitis. If the child is under two, he/she is more likely to develop life threatening respiratory infections. Children raised by smokers are more likely to become smokers themselves. So if you smoke around your children, then yes, I think you are selfish.

 

[/url]

And that's not all. I cut out and kept an article from a newspaper about this. A woman smoked 20 a day at home for years. Her seven year old kid became very ill. The doctors said he had the lungs of a pensioner.

 

Children's lungs are still developing way into late childhood they said. You really should not make kids passive smokers. It really is an unforgivable thing to do.The lady gave up smoking in her home when she found out how much harm she had done to her child. It was of course , too late for him.

[sheik-yerbouti]

Shot with what? Bow and arrow? I thought the general contention was that you didn't have a 'gun problem' over there.

We do have a gun problem over here. At present it is not as bad as yours is though.

 

We now have teens forming gangs along the American model. Guns, drugs etc, contesting turf etc. The problem is based in inner cities. London , Liverpool, Manchester (gunchester) and Nottingham.

 

In Liverpool there are several gangs, one for each of several areas. Two are at war. The Crocky Eds, and the Noggzi eds. Eds = Heads. Crocky and Noggzi are shortenings of Croxteth, and Norris Green.

 

Two years ago, a Crocky ed, was shot dead. The reprisal was the shooting dead of "Smigger" - A noggzi or Nogga. Another reprisal followed, a moron from the other group tried to shoot an opponent and missed. It cost the life of a 12 year old, who had nothing to do with it.

 

All these idiots post on Youtube of their doings, and weaponry. Look here :

 

[ame=http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q9H7PecBYo]YouTube - new noggzy vid 07[/ame]

[RaE]

It sounds to me Sheik, that your gun problem is worse. At least here, we have the right to own a gun to defend ourselves against gangs and guns...