Obama still does not get it

[Phreakwars]

See this might come to a surprise to you TJ, but once you leave Ayn Rand (social security collecting hypocrite) land, and get past the Friedman propaganda and into the real world, your going to find your utopia will not work BECAUSE of Christians, BECAUSE there are Christians who CHOOSE to educate their child in public schools. And I really didn't want to have to break the news to you, but I'm pretty dang sure alot of these Christian parents, are NOT liberals.

So while your utopia might sound good in theory, it would NEVER work and would never be implemented... but feel free to keep dreaming. I know your compelled to blame anything and everything on "liberals" and "progressives" but get a clue man, the REAL WORLD awaits, and in it, we are all people, political parties not needed.

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[Times]

Where did you answer anything, you just bitched and complained as usual.

I said communities handled the educational requirements of their own children long before big Government got involved, that is the answer. What is wrong with people taking care of themselves? Why is people taking care of their own needs not a answer you can understand?

And my answer is still the same... BIG ****ING WHOOP.

No, the dodge is still the same, you have no reasonable answer, you know darn well giving out goodies to high paid and spoiled Union workers don't help a single poor person. That tax break is money stolen away from the program that could go to help people and yet you guys don't care as long as you are protecting your kind. They vote progressive so they need to be protected.....right?

Just try and getting into a good college with home schooling... yeah, you make sense.

Was the point to be educated or fall into some kind of standard appearance of education to attend a Government run college?

My sister's oldest daughter was home schooled and got accepted to a big name legal college in Chicago, her youngest is still being home schooled and has scored 60% above average on the standard tests they make her take every couple years. Yes, some of the schools might not like home schooled children, but most of the best schools will look at CPT results and the history of the child on the other State required tests done over the years to make their decision on acceptence.

I am NOT an Athiest.

Right, so why do you attack religion so much? What politically correct phrase have you guys come up with to describe yourselves now?

And where did you come up with THAT bullshit analogy? I guess anybody in public school is an atheist, and anybody in a parochial school must be a conservative, right?

Where the heck do you come up with that kind of garbage Phreak?

You asked how people get educated without big Government, my answer is the communities have always took care of that and it was religious groups who are the most responsible for educating people. You then cried about why an atheist would have to get an education in a church so I said the Atheists can build a school just like a Christian can. What is so hard about that to understand?

No, I just don't want to watch a bunch of bullshit that has NOTHING to do with this topic. I find it quite boring as hell watching a Donahue re-run. i was WILLING TO WATCH WHICHEVER OF THE 5 CLIPS PERTAINED TO EDUCATION, you never pointed out which one that would be... could it be because NONE OF THEM DO?

All of them do, it is about how the free markets allow people to choose what they want and those things people want survive while the things people don't want should not survive. Donahue was a hell of a lot smarter than you and tried to play the Progressive game with Friedman but Donahue was crushed. There is no reasonable arguement for Government control over markets and the more the Government gets involved, the less freedoms we have as Americans.

This was a thread about Obama not "getting it" and the points made in the videos are part of what you Progressives are incapable of understanding because you blind yourself from the things that would educate you, like these videos.

Actually, in recent studies, it's quite the opposite LOOK IT UP IF YOU DARE!! I believe IWS even posted a topic about it... ignore it if it's convenient.

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Actually on this very forum you claimed the Republicans never offered a single new idea on healthcare, IWS posted about a dozen and each time he posted one, you ignored it and still claimed they never offered a single new idea. HJust like how we all posted links showing how the so called "death panels" were already approved before Obamacare, posted the actual statements from the guy in charge of that department and still you refused to admit it was true.

Time and time again it is you who proves Progressives wear blinders.

See this might come to a surprise to you TJ, but once you leave Ayn Rand (social security collecting hypocrite) land, and get past the Friedman propaganda and into the real world, your going to find your utopia will not work BECAUSE of Christians, BECAUSE there are Christians who CHOOSE to educate their child in public schools. And I really didn't want to have to break the news to you, but I'm pretty dang sure alot of these Christian parents, are NOT liberals.

Again you say something that both has nothing to do with the subject being discussed but is also just flames.

Just because a Christian has their child in a public school that does not mean they like it or would prefer it. The Government is already taking their money and not leaving them an option to get that money back to use it in their own way to educate their own child. I gurantee you that given the option to get back their tax money, they would choose a non-public school option. Here in Florida there has been huge attempts to try and get school vouchers to get the same funds sent to the public schools sent instead to private schools but the school Unions cry rivers and complain it will destroy the public school system (of course they are only interested in kleeping their very high paying Union jobs).

So while your utopia might sound good in theory, it would NEVER work and would never be implemented... but feel free to keep dreaming. I know your compelled to blame anything and everything on "liberals" and "progressives" but get a clue man, the REAL WORLD awaits, and in it, we are all people, political parties not needed.

Well the interesting thing is that it already did work in the real world, after governments took over standards and education percentages declined, in the "real world" of today, a teacher is one of the hardest people in the world to fire even for good cause, there are teachers getting their full pay and sitting in a room each day with nothing to do because the schools can't let them around childern but also can't fire them because of the power of their Unions.

Today on average 1/4 of all school budgets go to the buracracy to run the schools and not to actually teach a single student.

Never be implimented?

Well maybe you need to look around, people are starting to get tired of this out of control spending by Progressives. Did you know there was a recent story from California where the Govenor wanted to gather unspent beautification funds from some cities and move that money to things like schools and these cities heard about the idea and hurried out to spend the money of beautification before the Govenor could gather it up? There is the real world for you, and the more these stories get out the more people are getting tired of the mess.

We are not running out of money Phreak, the money is all gone and making painful cuts is now a certainty, where these cuts are made who knows, but the first place I would look is cutting all Government jobs in half and transition down to 1/4 over the next 10 years. Eliminate the IRS, eliminate most school boards and have one central State level school board. Eliminate 90% of supervisor jobs and have more "working managers". End almost all welfare, allow for only the most needy who have no living family to help them for consideration. Eliminate 90% of Government run agencies. Maintain most of the inspection teams but consilidate all the field workers under one agency instead of the hundreds of agencies and their sub groups each requiring seperate supervisors and buracracy that includes hundreds of Government buildings and the costs to maintain those buildings.

These are just a few ideas but at the end of the day, big cuts are on the way, I gurantee it. Maybe not as big as I mention, not at first anyway, but once things like social security is out of funds, and other welfare programs keep expanding on current trends, the bottom must fall out one day, and when it does, the pain will be greater than if we took action now.

 

[wez]

lol, as usual Wez you have no real intention of honest debate, all you want is an arguement and you will not get it from me. Joker already pointed out one massive mistake you mentioned but the point all you Progressives miss is all I want is for people to be responsible for their own actions. You and all Progressives are rooted in the idea that people should not be held responsible for their actions and you also feel it is the role of Government to "fix" the lives of Americans, even against their will.

You talk about wanting people like me to adopt unwanted children but who made the unwanted children Wez? Do you have anything negative to say about humans who don't take their reproductive powers seriously? How about yourself Wez? You did not care, you had unprotected sex and created an unwanted baby and the only answer you could come up with it to kill the result of your irresponsibility. A child had to die so you would not have to be inconvenienced. When Progressives like yourself start taking responsibility for your own actions, America will start to get strong again.

hahaha.. whatever.. you're trying to make unwanted children by trying to force every pregnancy under the jurisdiction of the United States to go to term.. calling 4 week old, fertilized, undeveloped cells "babies" and "child".. hahahaha.. good one.. I don't quite see it that way.. and apparently plenty of other people don't either. Fine, we don't need to agree.. I'm ok with that.. are you?

I can appreciate your stance.. so.. don't have a ****ing abortion.. no one is forcing you to have one.. but you want to take that choice away from everyone.. why? Think ya need to "fix" women? Why do you completely ignore the pregnant woman's rights in the situation? She can do with her internal organs as she likes as far as I'm concerned. There is a difference between a fertilized egg and a born human being. Whatever, enough said.. besides, the issue is you trying to force your morality on 300+ million people, all as you bitch and moan about the big bad government trying to impose sh*t on people like a certain basic degree of healthcare?

Then you are constantly complaining about poor people in general being "leeches" and whine endlessly about how they're depriving you of god knows what? What the f*** dude? Be grateful for what ya got.. I don't put that much faith and emphasis on money in the grand scheme of life nor does it dictate how I feel about other people. I kinda like my species.. hate to see anyone suffering.. it's impossible for me to not put myself in other peoples shoes everyday of my life.. seems impossible for you to ever put yourself in anyone's situation.. whatever.. you're not me. I wish I could be as narrow minded and self centered as you sometimes.. well.. maybe not..

Yes, I wish that for just one time, you could stand inside my shoes.. You 'd know what a drag it is to see you ~ Bob Dylan

Now.. lemme ask ya this.. how is it not bad "killing" and "murder" to shoot, stab, blow up, burn, maim, etc, a total stranger in a foreign land, fully born, because the government you condemn on a daily basis tells you to do it without question? You eat that sh*t up with a shovel.. no issues sending your son off to learn the fine art of killing.. baffling to me.

Please explain..

 

[eddo]

Just try and getting into a good college with home schooling... yeah, you make sense.

homeschooled kids tend to be some of the smartest out there, and of the many I have known over the years, none have had any issue getting into whatever college they wanted to attend- including some big name colleges.

that is a completely ignorant statement Phreak. nice try though....

 

[Phreakwars]

Sure you COULD have some that are well educated in a home schooled environment, but would that work for the masses? I know of one particular case where a lady living out in the traler courts in the area home schooled her own kids... probably because she was too damn lazy to get her ass up and take them to school... needless to say, her kids are all dumb as sticks.

Now, through no fault of their own, her kids have no real talents or skills to utilize in the world, will never be able to achieve anything reasonable and will be doomed to live a life of cheap labor jobs.

What TJ is saying here is... educate your own.. that would only work if the would be educator had half a brain themselves. And in a REAL WORLD environment, that is just simply not a plausible reality. You'll only end up making an even dumber society then what we already have.

Take the lady in the trailer court scenario and apply it to the ghettos, and the poor and what do you get? Are you gonna try and convince me America would be better off? Put down the damn crack pipe.

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[Phreakwars]

I said communities handled the educational requirements of their own children long before big Government got involved, that is the answer. What is wrong with people taking care of themselves? Why is people taking care of their own needs not a answer you can understand?

And where do these communities get the funding TJ? A magic money tree... or perhaps... TAXES?

No, the dodge is still the same, you have no reasonable answer, you know darn well giving out goodies to high paid and spoiled Union workers don't help a single poor person. That tax break is money stolen away from the program that could go to help people and yet you guys don't care as long as you are protecting your kind. They vote progressive so they need to be protected.....right?

Yeah, so?

Was the point to be educated or fall into some kind of standard appearance of education to attend a Government run college?

Now your talking sh*t... as usual. THE POINT is just to be educated PERIOD.

My sister's oldest daughter was home schooled and got accepted to a big name legal college in Chicago, her youngest is still being home schooled and has scored 60% above average on the standard tests they make her take every couple years. Yes, some of the schools might not like home schooled children, but most of the best schools will look at CPT results and the history of the child on the other State required tests done over the years to make their decision on acceptence.

See the response in my previous post

Right, so why do you attack religion so much? What politically correct phrase have you guys come up with to describe yourselves now?

Wow, I have only said I am a Deist for over 20 years now, where the hell have you been?

Where the heck do you come up with that kind of garbage Phreak?

Your the guy trying to claim religious schools are IT, and that public schools are government ran progressive schools.

You asked how people get educated without big Government, my answer is the communities have always took care of that and it was religious groups who are the most responsible for educating people. You then cried about why an atheist would have to get an education in a church so I said the Atheists can build a school just like a Christian can. What is so hard about that to understand?

My question still stands... WHO FUNDS THE COMMUNITIES?

All of them do, it is about how the free markets allow people to choose what they want and those things people want survive while the things people don't want should not survive. Donahue was a hell of a lot smarter than you and tried to play the Progressive game with Friedman but Donahue was crushed. There is no reasonable arguement for Government control over markets and the more the Government gets involved, the less freedoms we have as Americans.

But of course, nothing SPECIFIC about education

This was a thread about Obama not "getting it" and the points made in the videos are part of what you Progressives are incapable of understanding because you blind yourself from the things that would educate you, like these videos.

What is there to GET? Your a ****ing collectivist who can't think for himself. I ask you how YOU PERSONALLY feel, you show me a ****ing yourtube video.

Actually on this very forum you claimed the Republicans never offered a single new idea on healthcare, IWS posted about a dozen and each time he posted one, you ignored it and still claimed they never offered a single new idea. HJust like how we all posted links showing how the so called "death panels" were already approved before Obamacare, posted the actual statements from the guy in charge of that department and still you refused to admit it was true.

Time and time again it is you who proves Progressives wear blinders.

Wow, and TIME AND TIME AGAIN I ask for you to show me those posts and you haven't once linked to a single one.

Again you say something that both has nothing to do with the subject being discussed but is also just flames.

Nope, just a reality check

Just because a Christian has their child in a public school that does not mean they like it or would prefer it. The Government is already taking their money and not leaving them an option to get that money back to use it in their own way to educate their own child. I gurantee you that given the option to get back their tax money, they would choose a non-public school option. Here in Florida there has been huge attempts to try and get school vouchers to get the same funds sent to the public schools sent instead to private schools but the school Unions cry rivers and complain it will destroy the public school system (of course they are only interested in kleeping their very high paying Union jobs).

Ah yes, it's the unions fault.. your very cliche' at times, you know that.

Well the interesting thing is that it already did work in the real world, after governments took over standards and education percentages declined, in the "real world" of today, a teacher is one of the hardest people in the world to fire even for good cause, there are teachers getting their full pay and sitting in a room each day with nothing to do because the schools can't let them around childern but also can't fire them because of the power of their Unions.

See, cliche'... IT'S ALL THE GOVERNMENTS FAULT!!

Today on average 1/4 of all school budgets go to the buracracy to run the schools and not to actually teach a single student.

Where did you get this data from? I'd like to read it.

Never be implimented?

NEVER

Well maybe you need to look around, people are starting to get tired of this out of control spending by Progressives. Did you know there was a recent story from California where the Govenor wanted to gather unspent beautification funds from some cities and move that money to things like schools and these cities heard about the idea and hurried out to spend the money of beautification before the Govenor could gather it up? There is the real world for you, and the more these stories get out the more people are getting tired of the mess.

Yeah, they're so sick of it they elected some tea baggers to go to Washington and claim they are gonna cut $100 billion and end up only cutting 32 on top og the $400 billion they RAISED the debt by giving tax cuts to the wealthy.. yeah... fiscally responsible and not taking it anymore... sure they are..

We are not running out of money Phreak, the money is all gone and making painful cuts is now a certainty, where these cuts are made who knows, but the first place I would look is cutting all Government jobs in half and transition down to 1/4 over the next 10 years. Eliminate the IRS, eliminate most school boards and have one central State level school board. Eliminate 90% of supervisor jobs and have more "working managers". End almost all welfare, allow for only the most needy who have no living family to help them for consideration. Eliminate 90% of Government run agencies. Maintain most of the inspection teams but consilidate all the field workers under one agency instead of the hundreds of agencies and their sub groups each requiring seperate supervisors and buracracy that includes hundreds of Government buildings and the costs to maintain those buildings.

Actually, what I see is Republican socialism taking from one group (the poor) and giving to another group (the wealthy). CUT CUT CUT

These are just a few ideas but at the end of the day, big cuts are on the way, I gurantee it. Maybe not as big as I mention, not at first anyway, but once things like social security is out of funds, and other welfare programs keep expanding on current trends, the bottom must fall out one day, and when it does, the pain will be greater than if we took action now.

Socialists!!.

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[Times]

And where do these communities get the funding TJ? A magic money tree... or perhaps... TAXES?

No, historically each person supported the local school out of pocket, you see Phreak, this was before the all powerful Government was taking away so much money out of each person's earnings. We don't need to beg the Government to fund things if they don't take the money from us in the first place. You do know that is where tax money comes from....right?

Yeah, so?

So? When you Progressives get power you are more corrupt than anyone else. You claim to want power to "help" the poor but everything you do screws the poor worse than ever before. The two big winners in the Obama mess are the insurance companies who get forced customers without a single gurantee to lower rates and the Unions who get lots of payoffs like part ownership in a car company they previously had no ownership of.....oh and special exemptions to very high new taxes on healthcare everyone else in America has to pay....

Now your talking sh*t... as usual. THE POINT is just to be educated PERIOD.

So if the only desire is to educate then why not educate at home, or maybe even small community schools run by parents instead of the Federal Government. Why are you so against individuals taking care of themselves? Why is the only Progressive idea one where a massive Federal Government runs your life for you?

See the response in my previous post

So because a tiny segment of people are not going to do a good job, the majority should be punished? Why not just take measures to deal with the tiny few who are bad?

In all reality, kids of parents who are as bad as you claim will not learn anything in a public school either. Public schools are about "fast food" education, grind them out and give away diplomas that are not really worth the paper they are printed on. It is the hard work of parents connected to the progress of their child in the school that makes for success.

But he point is made, you asked how people get educated, and I simply pointed out that education like anything else should be in the hads of those who want it, not mandated and controlled by an all powerful Government.

Wow, I have only said I am a Deist for over 20 years now, where the hell have you been?

I know you like to believe you are the center of the universe but I have not known you for 20 years. There is absolutely no difference between a Deist and an Atheist in how they act or how they attack religion so in this discussion the point is the same. You believe God went through all the trouble to make this Universe just to abandon it, interesting concept and based in the same need to do as you please without considering if there may be more to your actions than just the here and now.

Selfishness is the root cause of both belief structures.

Your the guy trying to claim religious schools are IT, and that public schools are government ran progressive schools.

I did?

Once again you practice the standard Progressive tactic of not telling the truth, I never said religious schools are "it" or even the only option, I simply pointed it out that religious people built and maintained the first schools and even today there are religious schools up to the highest levels.

You are the guy trying to say a big all powerful Government is the "only" path to education, all I am doing is proving that silly claim of yours wrong.

My question still stands... WHO FUNDS THE COMMUNITIES?

The people do, let me ask you a question, how does the all powerful Government give money to schools if they don't first take that money from the community? Simply stop taking the money and let the individual take care of their own needs. Right now the Government wastes about as much money as they hand out because the monster big enough to collect and distribute these amounts of money also has a overhead to maintain. Unfortunately the Federal Government has a structure bigger than any company in the world but is run by department store level management, sometimes not even that much, Obama never managed anything in his life and is now managing the largest Government in the world. This is why it is impossible for the Government to manage anything well.

But of course, nothing SPECIFIC about education

Free markets are very specific. If the public wants it, they will provide it, if they don't want it, then the unwanted thing dies away. The best point ever made is each time the Government sticks it's nose into the free market, we lose jobs and costs skyrocket.

What is there to GET? Your a ****ing collectivist who can't think for himself. I ask you how YOU PERSONALLY feel, you show me a ****ing yourtube video.

Insults on a personal nature Phreak? I can't think for myself? It is the power to think for yourself that means you don't need Government to run your life for you Phreak.

This is not the first time we have walked down this road Phreak, you continually ignore direct answers in favor of your Government master so why waste my time trying to give you a well thought out reply you will only ignore anyway?

The way I feel is illisustrated very well in that interview, only through free markets have the poor gotten so much more than any other place in the world. The poorest places in the world with the lest prosperity to the poor are exactly the kinds of Governments you Progressives want us to become. Nothing in life is "free". If you give something to someone else they did not earn, that means you had to take it from someone else who did earn it. That system punishes success and causes more people to stop being successful.

Wow, and TIME AND TIME AGAIN I ask for you to show me those posts and you haven't once linked to a single one.

I will not feed into your sickness, everyone including IWS knows you do this, I will not waste my time searching all the many threads to find one we all already know exists. I tell you what, get IWS to post here that you never ignored his many examples as I claim and I will remove myself from this forum and never post here again, or better yet, tell me you will never post here again if I do link it and I will take the time to go find it, but otherwise, I have better things to do with hours of my time than for you to just say "so what" each time you are proven wrong.

Nope, just a reality check

No, just more misdirection and dodging of the points by a Progressive. Every answer to a problem with you guys is more and bigger Government running our lives.

Ah yes, it's the unions fault.. your very cliche' at times, you know that.

The Unions had their time, but now they are just bullies and it is the members of the Unions that are the real problem. They burrow down into their Union like a tick and suck everything dry without any consideration to if they are killing the system they are a part of.

Did you know the biggest employer of Union workers in the Federal Government?

See, cliche'... IT'S ALL THE GOVERNMENTS FAULT!!

When we let the Government take over life itself that is our fault "through Government". Government is the tool ripping us apart, but it is us who are letting it happen.

People like you become dependent on the Government to make your decisions for you, that is why you keep comming back to the education claim, you don't want to be bothered educating children so just let the Government do it for you....right?

Where did you get this data from? I'd like to read it.

School budgets are public record in most States, go get your local school board budget numbers, and do the math yourself. Me and a few friends of mine do ours every year.

NEVER

Being as I already pointed out that these ideas were already working in the past the only correct way to offer your claim is it will "never happen again". I agree that it will most likely never go back to pure individual responsibility, but we also can't continue down the road we are on. We have no choice but to either go back to some ides that used to work fine or find new ways to deal with things than just throwning more tax money at problems we don't have and more regulations on things that are already stagnating society.

Yeah, they're so sick of it they elected some tea baggers to go to Washington and claim they are gonna cut $100 billion and end up only cutting 32 on top og the $400 billion they RAISED the debt by giving tax cuts to the wealthy.. yeah... fiscally responsible and not taking it anymore... sure they are..

Did they give tax cuts or did they continue cuts and maintain current tax liabilities as they were?

Is their work done in just a few days or are there other days ahead to show what kinds of ideas and cost cutting they can offer Americans?

Obama killed the most private sector jobs in the history of America and at the same time created the most Government sector jobs in American history, increased the debt at levels never even dreamed of and at the same time could not preserve his promise to keep unemployment at 8% or less if he was given the freedom to pass his bill without anyone even reading it, he told us to just trust him and his Democrats, they knew what they were doing and guess what Phreak, they lied.

Actually, what I see is Republican socialism taking from one group (the poor) and giving to another group (the wealthy). CUT CUT CUT

So if you let a worker or businessman keep more of the money "they earned" that is socialism in your book?

For too long people have become addicted to the Government based on a time and prosperity where few were holding their hands out and many were working and could easily support those few as a tiny segment of their income. While still wrong it was sustainable at the time because we had way, way more paying into the system than were taking out of the system. This is no longer the case. Now much larger percentages on income are needed to support those with their hands out because they represent a much larger segement of society and other factors like inflation as well as Government regulation have added to the costs of supporting each person in need.

Add to that the increases of regular Government operations and we are running out of control down a hill. Here in Florida almost everything has doubled in cost from the Government, today it costs twice as much to renue your drivers license as it did last year before September.

?One of the consequences of such notions as "entitlements" is that people who have contributed nothing to society feel that society owes them something, apparently just for being nice enough to grace us with their presence.? ~ Thomas Sowell

?The assumption that spending more of the taxpayer's money will make things better has survived all kinds of evidence that it has made things worse. The black family- which survived slavery, discrimination, poverty, wars and depressions- began to come apart as the federal government moved in with its well-financed programs to "help." ~ Thomas Sowell