stimulus bill 5,6,7?

[Times]

I can't really remember what number we are on but after many, many failed attempts to spend our way into prosperity, Obama is again asking for a new stimulus bill to "create jobs"........

This time he says it si to build roads and such...but is that not what the first big stimulus bill was supposed to be for? Shovel ready projects that would boost jobs? What happened to those roads?

Wow.

When is enough considered enough? We all get it, the only thing progressives know is spend, spend, spend and increase taxes, that is their solution for everything.

But the American people have spoken, they are tired of this attitude that spending money we don't have is okay. Yes, Republicans did it too, nobody is letting them off the hook, but how do we improve this problem by making it worse? How do we justify more out of control spending by pointing a finger at the past and saying "well someone else spent too much too...."?

The only reason to look at the past is to try and avoid mistakes made in that past.

Obama promised us unemployment below 8% if we gave him his stimulus bill without reading it:

And how did that work out?

Lots of people say that things were wrose than they thought and Obama is not to blame but really, who selected the experts he relied on? If his choices are that bad then it is still his fault for making decisions based on the advise of idiots who don't know what they are talking about so why should we think he can do better when he still has most of the same people working for him, giving him advise?

I say stop, stop everything, let the Country get it's breath and back off all the new spending to include the new entitlements we can't afford while the American people work hard to rebuild their lives.

Expert after expert agrees that the current administration has the business world scared to death because they don't know what is next, what to count on or what can be invested in without severe penalties from the Whitehouse. A new piece of legislation could pass tomorrow that could change an investment from a profitable one to one that costs millions in losses. There is no way jobs can be created in this confusion. Business needs certainty, and that is one thing they cannot have under this Administration.

 

[Phreakwars]

So let's hear that Republican solution. Your all to good about complaining.

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[IWS]

Two points.

One. I'd like to know how anyone would have ballz to ask for $50 B more for another stimulus, when $250 B of the last, failed stimulus is still not spent?

Two. I love how many of the ideas proposed for the next stimulus, that is promised to work this time, are not only ideas that Repubs tried to get in the last stimulus plan, but were shunned by Dems, and are also the programs that were in the 1981 Reagan plan that was a success.

I guess ideology trumped the welfare of the American people.

 

[IWS]

Chip Reed nails Baghdad Bob and Pres Obama on the new "Stimulus"...

 

[Times]

So let's hear that Republican solution. Your all to good about complaining.

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Well like IWS just pointed out, this set of ideas were already offered by Republicans and Obama shot them down, and as we see in the video also offered by IWS, the only reason Obama has turned to Republicans for ideas is because this is a political season and he desperately needs a "win" for his side.

I have watched IWS post idea after idea each time you claim Republicans don't have ideas and each and every time you pretend to not see what IWS posts, I myself ask you direct questions over and over that you ignore because you can't answer them without admitting the progressives are wrong. You don't see the Conservative ideas because you have brainwashed yourself into believing there will never be a good idea and so you will not allow yourself to acknowledge they exist.

But Obama has noticed.

I mean....he can't steal their ideas if he does not notice them right?

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Let me add something else.

I already hinted at a good idea in my first post. Right now Americans are sitting on their money, in some cases in non-interest bearing accounts at levels higher then any other time in recent history.

Why?

Because of the unstable nature of doing business in America right now.

The biggest problem with you progressives treating business owners like the enemy is they back off, they protect their money and investments from you and your insane taxes. The harder you push to steal more of their money, the less they give you access to it so you end up actually getting less revinue from them than in "tax collection".

You progressives falsly believe that just because you increase their taxes, you get more money. If the business people were stupid, then you would be correct, but they are not stupid. You can't tax what they don't spend. You can't tax what is not earned. You cannot tax money that is sitting still and not invested. So you increase your taxes and end up with less tax revinue and sit around scratching your heads wondering why.........

So the solution is a simple one at first, get out of the way. Reward business people to invest their money, get the cycle started again where people feel confident to invest their money and the jobs will start rebuilding in the private sector again.

 

[Phreakwars]

A bunch of hot air, blah blah blah....

So the solution is a simple one at first, get out of the way. Reward business people to invest their money, get the cycle started again where people feel confident to invest their money and the jobs will start rebuilding in the private sector again.

So where are the jobs TJ?

Been there, done that.. where are the jobs?

And all IWS has ever posted are the same damn GOP talking points.. tax cuts, tax cuts, like were gonna tax cut our way out of a bad economy.

As for STEALING Republican ideas... sh*t. What does THAT matter, the Republicans still say NO.

It's been that way for the last 2 years. He crosses party lines, proposes REPUBLICAN ideas, they STILL say NO. Simply because they WANT America to fail.

These are the same assholes that want power back because they can complain 24-7 about the guy in office?

Ahh hell no, the voters aren't THAT stupid.

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[Phreakwars]

 

[Times]

So where are the jobs TJ?

Been there, done that.. where are the jobs?

They certainly are not in the hands of Obama the job killer.

If you go back to before Obama was elected I predicted that Obama will go down in history as the guy who killed the most private sector jobs as President, and this guy is doing exactly that. You can't encourage business growth and creating new jobs if your at the same time attacking those who create business and jobs.

Obama has spent almost 2 straight years attacking business owners as evil, now how are these same people supposed to create jobs when it is clear Obama is out to hurt them?

We will not see any real job growth until the job creaters no longer feel like the enemy Phreakwars.

And all IWS has ever posted are the same damn GOP talking points.. tax cuts, tax cuts, like were gonna tax cut our way out of a bad economy.

Bull, during the healthcare discussions IWS posted at least 10 detailed alternatives that you completely ignored and pretended did not exist, one was about dropping the restriction of selling insurance accross state lines, the Republicans offered it and the liberals rejected it even though almost all experts agreed it would lower the actual cost of insurance around 10%.

As for STEALING Republican ideas... sh*t. What does THAT matter, the Republicans still say NO.

As the video showed, the only time Obama does this is when he knows nothing can happen this close to an election.

It's called politics as usual, something Obama promised not to do but has become a master at it instead of honoring his promise.

It's been that way for the last 2 years. He crosses party lines, proposes REPUBLICAN ideas, they STILL say NO. Simply because they WANT America to fail.

They say no because he will take one Republican idea, attach it to a thousand bad ideas from them and claim the bill is bi-partisan. They say no because the overall bill is bad for the Country.

It is called being responsible. That single good Republican idea is not strong enough to overcome the thousand bad ideas.

These are the same assholes that want power back because they can complain 24-7 about the guy in office?

I have to say I don't understand what you were trying to say with that part.

We want the progressives out because they are bankrupting the Country. What good is it to have power when the Nation is falling apart because progressives don't respect money and where it comes from?

Ahh hell no, the voters aren't THAT stupid.

Well those voters did elect that lying progressive in the first place Phreakwars.

Obama was elected on the backs of independents who were promised a moderate, a guy who promised to bring both sides together. A guy who sold the idea of "change" and "hope" but the second Obama got into office, he became the most partisan and divisive President to ever hold office.

If you really care about the poor you let them have jobs instead of Government handouts. If you really care about the poor you don't pass things like cap-and-tax that will tripple the cost of heating, something the very poor in the North might even die because they can't afford to heat their homes. If you really care about the poor you enforce the borders and save tax funds to care for them instead of wasting hundreds of billions of dollars on supporting illegals who don't add ot the federal tax funds.

Are the voters stupid?

No, I think they are just gullible and really hoped Obama would be different. But their hope did not end up to be true and now it is time to look past hope and do the responsible thing by removing the elitist progressives out of power so they will stop trying to transform America into a daycare center.

Hey, if it could work I would almost agree to it but we have California as the prime example of what happens when you let progressives run something. That alone should let any smart person know the progressives are not sane individuals.

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By the way, you still have never answered my question as to why all Americans needed Obama to give big Unions a free pass on the new taxes on insurance policies? What exactly did that do to improve the healthcare of average Americans?

 

[jokersarewild]

I proposed something on another thread involving small business. Cut their taxes for the moment, but then when they are making money and are more secure financially, get them up to paying an equal percentage. It could work. Gives them a little leeway as far as starting out. So what is the opinion on that?

 

[eddo]

A bunch of hot air, blah blah blah....

So the solution is a simple one at first, get out of the way. Reward business people to invest their money, get the cycle started again where people feel confident to invest their money and the jobs will start rebuilding in the private sector again.

So where are the jobs TJ?

Been there, done that.. where are the jobs?

And all IWS has ever posted are the same damn GOP talking points.. tax cuts, tax cuts, like were gonna tax cut our way out of a bad economy.

As for STEALING Republican ideas... sh*t. What does THAT matter, the Republicans still say NO.

It's been that way for the last 2 years. He crosses party lines, proposes REPUBLICAN ideas, they STILL say NO. Simply because they WANT America to fail.

These are the same assholes that want power back because they can complain 24-7 about the guy in office?

Ahh hell no, the voters aren't THAT stupid.

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hmmm, for almost 2 years ow Dems have had control of the House, the Senate and the White House.

and it's the Republican's fault nothing is getting done?

How the hell does that work????

 

[IWS]

A bunch of hot air, blah blah blah....

So the solution is a simple one at first, get out of the way. Reward business people to invest their money, get the cycle started again where people feel confident to invest their money and the jobs will start rebuilding in the private sector again.

So where are the jobs TJ?

Been there, done that.. where are the jobs?

And all IWS has ever posted are the same damn GOP talking points.. tax cuts, tax cuts, like were gonna tax cut our way out of a bad economy.

As for STEALING Republican ideas... sh*t. What does THAT matter, the Republicans still say NO.

It's been that way for the last 2 years. He crosses party lines, proposes REPUBLICAN ideas, they STILL say NO. Simply because they WANT America to fail.

These are the same assholes that want power back because they can complain 24-7 about the guy in office?

Ahh hell no, the voters aren't THAT stupid.

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[Times]

I proposed something on another thread involving small business. Cut their taxes for the moment, but then when they are making money and are more secure financially, get them up to paying an equal percentage. It could work. Gives them a little leeway as far as starting out. So what is the opinion on that?

Well as I have pointed out before, taxes on business are considered a "cost of doing business" and treated as any other overhead. All business taxes are passed down to the consumer. When the progressives talk about increasing taxes on the 'rich' most of them are small and large business owners who simply pass those taxes down to the consumers. So each time you hear about taxes being raised, understand that is code for "you are about to spend more for everything you buy".

The thing small business needs is less confusion and complexity from all levels of Government to operate a business. While someone may be very gifted doing some service he can sell, that same guy may not be able to understand and navigate the complex mess that the various Government entities requires him to do. Simplicity is the key to helping the new business owner get off the ground.

hmmm, for almost 2 years ow Dems have had control of the House, the Senate and the White House.

and it's the Republican's fault nothing is getting done?

How the hell does that work????

And don't forget the Democrats also had control of the congress for the last two years of Bush too, right when everything was falling apart, it was the Progressives who had the real control, not Bush. Add to that the biggest reason for the housing and bank mess was from legislation passed and made stronger by the progressives to force giving loans for homes to people who could not afford those loans under normal bank rules. Then in 2004 when the Republicans tried to warn the progressives that something was going wrong, the Democrats claimed there was nothing to be concerned about and used the race card to get the Republicans to back down.

All of this mess is the fault of the Progressives who refused to heed warnings offered by Republicans and who had the majority of control when things started falling apart as predicted and warned by the Republicans.

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Nice video IWS, but Obama does not possess the understanding of how free markets work and no desire to learn. The goal is always to put the Government in control of everything, but they are not stupid, they know they can't take too much too fast so they take over as much as they can, and hurt what they can't take over to set up an excuse to take that over too later down the road when they claim there is no other alternative.

Considering that, it is almost logical to say maybe they set op the banks to fail on purpose as well, consider how much power they now possess because of that failure. That would certainly explain why they ignored the many warnings from Republicans this was comming.

 

[Phreakwars]

Look at this, I come back to see an answer as to where the jobs are, I get finger pointing.

Come on now, all the red parts in the chart are BUSH

Where are the jobs?

Come on now, can't blame it on a Democrat controlled congress. If you want to, WHAT LAWS DID THEY PASS TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN?

NONE

Can't blame em.

That chart is the free market TJ plan at work. Where are the jobs? If they would have been there, Obama wouldn't have to be doing all that spending, if they were there McCain would have won in the first place.. so again.. WHERE ARE THE JOBS?

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[Times]

I have no idea what that chart is supposed to show because we sure have not been gaining any jobs under Obama. Obama promised us 8% or lower unemployment if we rushed into passing his so called "Stimulus" bill and instead of helping the unemployment rate, it actually made it worse than even his own advisors said it would be if they did nothing at all.

While Bush was in office we had 9/11, floods, hurricains, wars, and even out of control forest fires as well as all the normal stuff every President has to deal with and even with all that pain, all that mess, Bush with a republican congress kept employment up and production up.

Only at the end of his Presidency, with a liberal Congress and that liberal congress ignoring the many warnings of Republicans about the housing market, did we see a massive failure of jobs and the crumbling of the housing market/banks begin. All this while Liberals controlled the purse strings. Bush was one man, incapable of going against the full weight of the liberals so you can't blame any of the mess at the end on him.

On top of that, it was very clear that at the end of Bush's Presidency, that a very liberal President would most likely take his place. Business are run by pretty smart people most of the time and they knew that they had two choices with the impending issues they were facing. Trust that a new very liberal President would not be anti-business like all the rest, or assume he would be like the rest of the progressives that came before and take steps to insulate their companies from the mess they knew was comming.

Obama drove as much of the early job loss as anyone else because he was expected to win and business knew if he did win, their pain would increase. So these companies trimmed their fat and got ready for the long starvation that was assured if he won.

Even after the first of the year when Obama promised jobs would be his number one issue, he changed his mind and decided to force the healthcare changes through anyway, against his own promise to Americans and guess what, he still has done nothing for jobs. The liberals have the majority, they forced their healthcare plan through without the Republicans, they can do anything else they want to do too, so why are they and you so hung up on trying to blame the Republicans?

Obama asked for this job, it was not forced on him. Obama has the ability to choose his own advisors and in the first year had the power to pass any legislation he desired because fo the super majority so he was the king, he was wearing the crown, he made the big decisions and now the results of those decisions are his fault.

Let me ask you a question Phreakwars.

If the Stimulus had worked, would that be credited to Bush or Obama? Obviously you and the rest of you moonbats would have been singning Obama's greatness and skill at handling the problem....right? Well if Obama would get credit for it's success, then he must also get credit for it's monumental failure.

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By the way, I am still waiting for you to answer that question, as to why giving Unions an exemption to the new high taxes on health insurance policies was good for all Americans? How was that good for the Nation as a whole Phreakwars?

 

[eddo]

I have no issue blaming Bush for the stimulus- he did one first.

I do however, entirely blame Obama for the second one- especially after the first one didn't help...

 

[Times]

I have no issue blaming Bush for the stimulus- he did one first.

I do however, entirely blame Obama for the second one- especially after the first one didn't help...

To be accurate Bush never signed a so called "stimulus". What Bush did was pass the TARP and it was more designed for proping up the failing banks in a short term fix and allow the new Administration decide how to deal with it.

I do see that as passing the buck but in all reality, what real alternative did Bush have? The liberals controlled Congress and already had their minds made up to prop up the banks they helped to break and even if Bush was able to hammer out some kind of alternative with months of fighting, his Presidency was almost over and he knew damn well that nothing he worked hard to create would survive for very long once Obama took office.

The second and much more expanded TARP was all Obama and company as well as the monster "stimulus" where Obama spent more with one swipe of his pen then Bush spent in 7 years of war spending, lol. In one month Obama added more to the deficit than 7 years of Bush war spending, that should really get your attention if your a tax paying American.

 

[IWS]

I have no issue blaming Bush for the stimulus- he did one first.

I do however, entirely blame Obama for the second one- especially after the first one didn't help...

To be accurate Bush never signed a so called "stimulus". What Bush did was pass the TARP and it was more designed for proping up the failing banks in a short term fix and allow the new Administration decide how to deal with it.

To be truly accurate, Bush did sign a stimulus bill prior to TARP...

President Bush on Wednesday signed the Economic Stimulus Act of 2008, calling it a "booster shot" for the American economy."The bill I'm signing today is large enough to have an impact, amounting to more than $152 billion this year, or about 1 percent of the GDP (gross domestic product)," the president said in the brief ceremony in the East Room of the White House.

The government hopes the measure, which will send most Americans tax rebate checks by May, will either prevent a recession or make one relatively brief.

The package also includes tax breaks for equipment purchases by businesses, as well as payments to disabled veterans and some senior citizens.

The bipartisan measure moved through Congress at relative break-neck speed, going from initial discussions to enactment in less than four weeks.

The package will pay $600 to most individual taxpayers and $1,200 to married taxpayers filing joint returns, so long as they are below income caps of $75,000 for individuals and $150,000 for couples. There is also a $300 per child tax credit.Watch Bush sign stimulus bill into law

The rebates will put about $120 billion in the hands of individuals in the hope that they will spend it and boost a faltering U.S. economy.

http://articles.cnn....?_s=PMOLITICS

 

[eddo]

To be truly accurate, Bush did sign a stimulus bill prior to TARP...

President Bush on Wednesday signed the Economic Stimulus Act of 2008, calling it a "booster shot" for the American economy."The bill I'm signing today is large enough to have an impact, amounting to more than $152 billion this year, or about 1 percent of the GDP (gross domestic product)," the president said in the brief ceremony in the East Room of the White House.

The government hopes the measure, which will send most Americans tax rebate checks by May, will either prevent a recession or make one relatively brief.

The package also includes tax breaks for equipment purchases by businesses, as well as payments to disabled veterans and some senior citizens.

The bipartisan measure moved through Congress at relative break-neck speed, going from initial discussions to enactment in less than four weeks.

The package will pay $600 to most individual taxpayers and $1,200 to married taxpayers filing joint returns, so long as they are below income caps of $75,000 for individuals and $150,000 for couples. There is also a $300 per child tax credit.Watch Bush sign stimulus bill into law

The rebates will put about $120 billion in the hands of individuals in the hope that they will spend it and boost a faltering U.S. economy.

http://articles.cnn....?_s=PMOLITICS

Yeah, this is what I was referring to.

 

[Times]

To be truly accurate, Bush did sign a stimulus bill prior to TARP...

oops, I thought eddo was calling the TARP a stimulus, I was wrong, sorry eddo.......

 

[RaE]

oops, I thought eddo was calling the TARP a stimulus, I was wrong, sorry eddo.......

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