Schoolyard Taunting

[RaE]

Once an entitlement gets rooted, it will not be removed. Social security is doomed to failure but nobody is willing to lay a hand on it from fear of the political backlash.

Who do you think will remove it? Do you think Obama will sign anything that will remove it? No, so that means we need enough power in congress to act without the President, and we will not gain that many seats. The only chance I see for stopping this is in the courts.

If you see another possibility please teach me with some specifics because I just don't see it.

obama only has 2 years left as president. it's supposed to take a min of 4 years for this to take effect...

 

[*Chi*]

I am not trying to be insulting, we all tend to lean one way or ther other, what I do remember is your being very supportive of Obama before the election and supporting most of his possitions so based on your own words you were 'mostly' liberal anyway.

My point was that you were simply supporting what you believed in, nothing wrong with that, you made your choice and truly believed you were doing the right thing. The other guys who talk about being conservative but not support a conservative who can win the election seems to be a contradiction in my mind.

And I was supportive of Bush and his war at the time (not any more.) Anyways, just because one leans to more so-called liberal views, doesn't mean they should lean towards EVERYTHING liberal, conservative, etc. That would just be blind, sheepish and stupid. Therefore, I see nothing wrong with what you are accussing RO, Hugo and whoever else of doing, they have every right (and sense) to.

 

[Times]

obama only has 2 years left as president. it's supposed to take a min of 4 years for this to take effect...

True, but the more time that goes by the less likely it will be completely eliminated. I am just talking form how things tend to be, I would be very glad to see this be the exception to the rule.

And I was supportive of Bush and his war at the time (not any more.) Anyways, just because one leans to more so-called liberal views, doesn't mean they should lean towards EVERYTHING liberal, conservative, etc. That would just be blind, sheepish and stupid. Therefore, I see nothing wrong with what you are accussing RO, Hugo and whoever else of doing, they have every right (and sense) to.

My point was consistency and hypocrisy.

You were consistent and was fully supportive of Obama and all he represented the entire time. You were true to the values you were vocal about, I respect you for that even if I do not agree with your choices.

Other people chatter constantly about wanting conservative values to come back but fail to support the only conservative who can win the election, that to me is inconsistent because you have to start somewhere, you can't expect to get everything you want the first time around, the idea is to encourage conservative minded people to run for office.

I would have voted for Sarah Palin just to piss off the liberals, they seem so completely scared of a conservative woman who is successful and did not have to look like a smashed mushroom or give up being a woman to gain her success. The disruption Palin caused alone would have blocked pretty much everything the liberals tried to do.

 

[snafu]

Again the GOP picked McCain because he was a centrlist. Ron Paul was too conservative for the change America was clambering for. Everybody had enough of the Bush era. Sure did come to bite them in the ass later though

 

[RaE]

Again the GOP picked McCain because he was a centrlist. Ron Paul was too conservative for the change America was clambering for. Everybody had enough of the Bush era. Sure did come to bite them in the ass later though

The problem is, McCain is exactly like Dubya was during his last 2 years... Centrist/left leaning. That's what America had enough with, they just didn't realize it. So they voted in somebody who was totally left. The exact opposite of what we needed.

 

[hugo]

The fact is every sane person who went to the polls knew that Obama would win the Presidency. Every sane person who went to the polls in Texas knew that McCain would carry Texas, Knowing this any sane person would vote for the man they thought was best. To vote for McCain says you approved a farther left GW with a bimbo communist running mate. The fact is if GW and many Republicans had not pushed through the expansion of Medicare Obamacare would not have happened. It was Floridians and other idiots that got Obama elected.

Yes, we have Obamacare thanks to conservatives like TJ who vote for socialists.

 

[Times]

The fact is every sane person who went to the polls knew that Obama would win the Presidency. Every sane person who went to the polls in Texas knew that McCain would carry Texas, Knowing this any sane person would vote for the man they thought was best. To vote for McCain says you approved a farther left GW with a bimbo communist running mate. The fact is if GW and many Republicans had not pushed through the expansion of Medicare Obamacare would not have happened. It was Floridians and other idiots that got Obama elected.

Every sane person who followed college football in 2007 knew the Michigan Wolverines were going to win their game against the barely known Appalachian St. Mountaineers. The Wolverines were ranked number 5 in the nation and were considered the drop down favorite to win the Big Ten championship and go to the National championship game. The tiny school from Boon NC pulled off what is considered by most the biggest upset in recent history in the college football world. The Wolverines even had a chance to save the game in a last few seconds field goal attempt and guess what, the Mountaineers blocked it winning 34 to 32.

They won because they never believed they were beaten before the game was played.

Yes, we have Obamacare thanks to conservatives like TJ who vote for socialists.

My vote was cast for the only conservative on the ticket, yours was not.

Nobody will ever deprive the American people of the right to vote except the American people themselves and the only way they could do this is by not voting. ~ Franklin D. Roosevelt

In my opinion wasting your vote on someone who is not even in the running is the same thing as not voting at all.

 

[IWS]

My vote was cast for the only conservative on the ticket, yours was not.

You voted for either Chuck Baldwin or Bob Barr?

http://election.dos.state.fl.us/candidate/CanList.asp

 

[RoyalOrleans]

You voted for either Chuck Baldwin or Bob Barr?

http://election.dos.state.fl.us/candidate/CanList.asp

Silly IWS! Conservatives have an "R" next to their name!

(sarcastic guffaw and knee slap)

 

[RoyalOrleans]

Every sane person who followed college football in 2007 knew the Michigan Wolverines were going to win their game against the barely known Appalachian St. Mountaineers. The Wolverines were ranked number 5 in the nation and were considered the drop down favorite to win the Big Ten championship and go to the National championship game. The tiny school from Boon NC pulled off what is considered by most the biggest upset in recent history in the college football world. The Wolverines even had a chance to save the game in a last few seconds field goal attempt and guess what, the Mountaineers blocked it winning 34 to 32.

They won because they never believed they were beaten before the game was played.

What has that got to do with voting for principle versus voting on party lines?

You assume that everyone in politics is playing for different teams, but the left-right paradigm is the only thing transparent in Washington. They all play for the same team. The team serves their own interests and hinders growth rather than to heal the wrongs of previous despots.

As far as Obamacare is concerned, the Republicans overwhelmingly voted against the bill. The luke-warm, centrist Republicans only voted against the bill because of the upcoming elections.

Laws are no longer made by a rational process of public discussion; they are made by a process of blackmail and intimidation, and they are executed in the same manner. The typical lawmaker of today is a man wholly devoid of principle — a mere counter in a grotesque and knavish game. If the right pressure could be applied to him, he would be cheerfully in favor of polygamy, astrology or cannibalism. - H.L. Mencken

My vote was cast for the only conservative on the ticket, yours was not. Nobody will ever deprive the American people of the right to vote except the American people themselves and the only way they could do this is by not voting. ~ Franklin D. Roosevelt

In my opinion wasting your vote on someone who is not even in the running is the same thing as not voting at all.

If he became convinced tomorrow that coming out for cannibalism would get him the votes he needs so sorely, he would begin fattening a missionary in the White House yard come Wednesday. - H.L. Mencken referring to Franklin D. Roosevelt.

FDR has the unique distinction of making a bad situation worse during his own presidency. By turning what should have been an ordinary fractional reserve banking recession into the worsened and prolonged Great Depression. And at the same time laying the foundation for the continuation of the bad situation through establishing the ever expanding Welfare State.

That said, FDR's quote might pertain to the discussion. Yet... I wouldn't quote him if you are trying to argue the conservative vs. liberal paradigm.

 

[Times]

I know you saw my point, now your just flooding the topic with a lot of empty words to try and take attention away from that point.

My comment teken in context as a reply to hugo is clear. Hugo contends that no conservative vote was wasted on alternative canidates because every sane person in America knew there was no way Obama could lose.

If we are to believe that concept is valid we should stop playing football games because all we need to do is award the win to the team "expected" to win and not waste any time actually playing it...........right?

My example was based on the fact that nobody knows for sure what the outcome of a contest is going to be..............unless they give up before the end, as he evidently did.

************

The quote is relivent reguardless of party, Most should understand that voting is a concept for all Americans, not just conservatives.

 

[RoyalOrleans]

Other people chatter constantly about wanting conservative values to come back but fail to support the only conservative who can win the election, that to me is inconsistent because you have to start somewhere, you can't expect to get everything you want the first time around, the idea is to encourage conservative minded people to run for office.

The centrists are responsible for the current mess that we are in: Obamacare and the whole lot of them. The centrists, either those in the Republican or Democratic Party, have decided every election that I can remember. It is the centrists, not the independents, who represent the undecided swing vote. Any columnist, talking head, or writer who says that its the "independents" who elected Obama, they are confused.

Your 25-45% socialists easily fall in with the centrists... no matter if there is an R or a D next to their name. There should be no such animal as a centrist position in America, as there is not a middle of the road between capitalism and socialism. A centrist might vote for one or the other, but it is that doubt of who they really are and what they believe that troubles me. Over time, centrism will leave us only with the right to vote and then bellyache about who they voted for.

I believe that the centrist mediocrity represent most views of Americans: middle-of-the-road, unconcerned about government, or just believe in luke-warm conservativeness with a liberal sprinkling of statist complacency. These centrists believe that there is only one choice to make between the two parties. Any other candidate is part of the "lunatic fringe" that contain your extremists and radicals. And these centrists make a decision on who seems to be the "lesser evil" or the one that lines up, lockstep with both ruling parties more centrist representatives.

That said, I have always voted independently and will continue to vote that way. God gave me the ability to exercise free will, I am blessed to have a free mind, and I don't march lockstep with the centrists.

I would have voted for Sarah Palin just to piss off the liberals, they seem so completely scared of a conservative woman who is successful and did not have to look like a smashed mushroom or give up being a woman to gain her success. The disruption Palin caused alone would have blocked pretty much everything the liberals tried to do.

That doesn't surprise me.

I do things everyday to piss off people.

 

[RoyalOrleans]

My example was based on the fact that nobody knows for sure what the outcome of a contest is going to be..............unless they give up before the end, as he evidently did.

I never gave up thinking that God would smite McCain, Palin, Obama, and Biden in the head with furious bolts of lightning, so that the real conservatives could have a chance to turn the tide.

The quote is relivent reguardless of party, Most should understand that voting is a concept for all Americans, not just conservatives.

All I was saying is that, if you are going to talk about conservative values, conservative politics, etc; quoting FDR is not the greatest way to go.

Americans need to see past the myths and legends of FDR in order to make better voting decisions.

 

[Times]

The centrists are responsible for the current mess that we are in: Obamacare and the whole lot of them. The centrists, either those in the Republican or Democratic Party, have decided every election that I can remember. It is the centrists, not the independents, who represent the undecided swing vote. Any columnist, talking head, or writer who says that its the "independents" who elected Obama, they are confused.

Your 25-45% socialists easily fall in with the centrists... no matter if there is an R or a D next to their name. There should be no such animal as a centrist position in America, as there is not a middle of the road between capitalism and socialism. A centrist might vote for one or the other, but it is that doubt of who they really are and what they believe that troubles me. Over time, centrism will leave us only with the right to vote and then bellyache about who they voted for.

I believe that the centrist mediocrity represent most views of Americans: middle-of-the-road, unconcerned about government, or just believe in luke-warm conservativeness with a liberal sprinkling of statist complacency. These centrists believe that there is only one choice to make between the two parties. Any other candidate is part of the "lunatic fringe" that contain your extremists and radicals. And these centrists make a decision on who seems to be the "lesser evil" or the one that lines up, lockstep with both ruling parties more centrist representatives.

That said, I have always voted independently and will continue to vote that way. God gave me the ability to exercise free will, I am blessed to have a free mind, and I don't march lockstep with the centrists.

But the 'centrists' who have the R or D in their description generally are voting for the R or D anyway, the only "wild cards" are the independents, they are the fence sitters who go either way the wind blows them at the time, that is why normally conservative minded people like the Libertarians ended up voting for the liberal instead of the conservative in the race. They are always going to be the deciding factor.

Let me give it to you another example, in Canada recent elections have shown conservative canidates winning elections and gaining a lot of power, but do you know why? In most polls they only get 33% of the popularity and the heavy liberals have 56% of the popularity....but that 56% is divided among three seperate groups who do not cooperate with each other. If they joined under one banner they would easily destroy the conservatives, division and splintering is costing them control.

That doesn't surprise me.

I do things everyday to piss off people.

I would not want to piss off everyone, but the liberals need to learn to learn a little humility, they are so dazzled by their own glamor they don't even see the little people and constitution they are trampling on.

 

[Times]

I never gave up thinking that God would smite McCain, Palin, Obama, and Biden in the head with furious bolts of lightning, so that the real conservatives could have a chance to turn the tide.

Just because someone like McCain does not believe everything you do that does not mean he is not a conservative, your only willing to see black and white but the world is shades of gray.

All I was saying is that, if you are going to talk about conservative values, conservative politics, etc; quoting FDR is not the greatest way to go.

Americans need to see past the myths and legends of FDR in order to make better voting decisions.

Again, voting is not conservative or liberal.

Voting is American.

 

[RoyalOrleans]

Just because someone like McCain does not believe everything you do that does not mean he is not a conservative, your only willing to see black and white but the world is shades of gray.

Being colorblind isn't a handicap.

Again, voting is not conservative or liberal.Voting is American.

No... I concur... voting is not affiliated with a party or a culture.

Other countries vote, however Americans don't vote in record numbers every election.

 

[Times]

Being colorblind isn't a handicap.

I will fall back on this quote again, it says my point better than anything else on sticking together:

“There are plenty of teams in every sport that have great players and

never win titles. Most of the time, those players aren't willing to

sacrifice for the greater good of the team. The funny thing is, in

the end, their unwillingness to sacrifice only makes individual

goals more difficult to achieve. One thing I believe to the fullest

is that if you think and achieve as a team, the individual accolades

will take care of themselves. Talent wins games, but teamwork and

intelligence win championships.” ~ Michael Jordan

No... I concur... voting is not affiliated with a party or a culture.

Other countries vote, however Americans don't vote in record numbers every election.

In many countries the vote means little, other countries it means a little more, but only America is the great experiment where true freedoms were put in the hands of the people and now they seem to be choosing the shackle of the European socialism anyway.......so many have no real clue as to what they are giving up.

You know RO, Obama did accomplish a great thing, he inserted an excitement that brought many people to the voting booth who normally would not have come, but he brought them to the booth with a lie that has dashed their dreams of the HOPE he was supposed to give them. The CHANGE in Washington so many people wanted....but all of it just more lies to get elected and gain power for himself and his liberal friends....what a waste, imagine if we could find a conservative minded person who could bring that kind of hope to the people but then follow through instead of turning his back on the campaign promises?

Now that is a guy I could get behind reguardless of what his party he belonged to, you know, even though my mind knew Obama was telling lies, my heart really wanted him to be telling the truth about ending the Washington as usual politics, but as usual, great dreams are exactly that, dreams, not reality.

 

[*Chi*]

I will fall back on this quote again, it says my point better than anything else on sticking together:

“There are plenty of teams in every sport that have great players and

never win titles. Most of the time, those players aren't willing to

sacrifice for the greater good of the team. The funny thing is, in

the end, their unwillingness to sacrifice only makes individual

goals more difficult to achieve. One thing I believe to the fullest

is that if you think and achieve as a team, the individual accolades

will take care of themselves. Talent wins games, but teamwork and

intelligence win championships.” ~ Michael Jordan

In many countries the vote means little, other countries it means a little more, but only America is the great experiment where true freedoms were put in the hands of the people and now they seem to be choosing the shackle of the European socialism anyway.......so many have no real clue as to what they are giving up.

You know RO, Obama did accomplish a great thing, he inserted an excitement that brought many people to the voting booth who normally would not have come, but he brought them to the booth with a lie that has dashed their dreams of the HOPE he was supposed to give them. The CHANGE in Washington so many people wanted....but all of it just more lies to get elected and gain power for himself and his liberal friends....what a waste, imagine if we could find a conservative minded person who could bring that kind of hope to the people but then follow through instead of turning his back on the campaign promises?

Now that is a guy I could get behind reguardless of what his party he belonged to, you know, even though my mind knew Obama was telling lies, my heart really wanted him to be telling the truth about ending the Washington as usual politics, but as usual, great dreams are exactly that, dreams, not reality.

Obama hasn't dashed any hope and faith in me. If anything he keeps proving and accomplishing things no one has been able to accomplish in this country yet.

 

[RoyalOrleans]

But the 'centrists' who have the R or D in their description generally are voting for the R or D anyway, the only "wild cards" are the independents, they are the fence sitters who go either way the wind blows them at the time, that is why normally conservative minded people like the Libertarians ended up voting for the liberal instead of the conservative in the race. They are always going to be the deciding factor.

What about the phenomenon of the Reagan Democrats? Aren't they centrists who are Democrats in name, but crossover on election day? What about these guys? Republicans For Obama

---------

Libertarians tend to be less willing to set aside their own personal convictions to vote for a lesser of two evils than the left, right, and center. In a race between evil and a greater evil, they are more likely to refuse to vote at all than to vote for an evil. Not voting based on principle is not a vote cast for or against either candidate, it is the simple fact that they are not willing to compromise.

I challenge you to provide some statistical evidence verifying the claim that libertarians actually did the "not-very-libertarian thing" and voted overwhelmingly for Obama during the last election or swing left at the voting booth in general. Such claims are either based on statistical data or are complete fabrications.

If based on statistical facts, then you should have no trouble producing them to back up your assertion.

PS: Independents do not count. That is, unless, you can prove that these independents are in fact libertarians and voted for Obama. Ohh... and a vote for a Libertarian candidate is NOT a vote for Obama, either. As statistics prove that they did not vote for Obama or McCain, but an actual Libertarian. (By default and indirectly has no room in hardened fast data).

PSS: Opinion polls do not count, either. Opinion polls (like a Rasmussen poll just before the election) ask voters if they consider themselves "fiscally conservative, socially liberal" and instantly brand you a "libertarian". That's not cold, hard evidence of libertarians casting a vote for Obama in the 2008 elections.

 

[hugo]

What TJ ignores in his football anbalogy is that the Presidential election game has about 30 seconds left and McCain was down by three touchdowns. Can't win.

Of course, in my state McCain was up by three touchdowns with 30 seconds left. Can't lose. If ignorance is bliss TJ is a very happy man.

Now to make things even more unlikely. In order for McCain to lose Texas and still win the Presidency he would have to lose 10 points among Texas voters while gaining 8 points nationally. I would call this impossible. Of course Ignorance is Bliss.

In any presidential election if Texas and/or Georgia is in play crown the Democrat victor. If California is in play crown the Republican victor.